ICANN Meeting Marrakech

[Rubber Duck]

http://www.icann.org/meetings/marrakech/

Sunday, 25 June 2006

Agend Item:

Workshop on IDN * (15:00-18:00) (Salle des Ministres)

What it is: Internationalized Domain Names (IDNs) are a key part of making all the resources of the Internet available to users worldwide in their local scripts.
Why it's important: This session focuses on a review of IDN policy issues that are critical to further progress on IDN implementation and will discuss suggestions for how to assign country code strings.
Who Should Attend: Government representatives, gTLD and ccTLD managers, application developers, any Internet users with an interest in the policy background to IDN issues.

[blastfromthepast]

What we need is to have an organized representation of IDN investors attend some of these meetings and have our point of view heard.

[Giant]

This is something interesting on June 27:

Workshops:

What it is: A continuation of Sunday's session, with the latest on IDN initiatives.

Why it's important: The workshop concludes with coverage of IDN technical issues including the plan for testing of live IDN TLDs, and an update on IDN activities taking place in Africa and the Middle East.

[touchring]

What we need is to have an organized representation of IDN investors attend some of these meetings and have our point of view heard.


Oh no, that's the last thing we need to do. It will result in the anti-idn cybersquatter measures to be discussed at the next meeting. :o

[sarcle]

To bad their webcast didn't do jack crap.

[Rubber Duck]

To bad their webcast didn't do jack crap.

A download is available here:

http://www.domainingblog.com/2006/06/icann-meets-in-morroco-puts-on-live.html

[555]

ICANN IDN Discussion Captioning available here:
http://www.icann.org/meetings/marrakech/captioning-idn-25jun06.htm

A couple of quotes from the above link



THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY KEEN TO SEE IDNS IMPLEMENTED INTO THE ROOT. I THANK YOU FOR TWO REASONS. ONE, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A NEED FROM WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM BUT ALSO THERE IS A CERTAIN DEGREE OF PATIENCE WHICH YOU ARE SHOWING WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT AS WE WORK THROUGH CAREFULLY TO ENSURE THAT THIS ACTIVITY IS DONE IN A WAY WHICH IS TECHNICALLY RESPONSIBLE, AND ALSO DONE IN A WAY WHICH ACTUALLY WORKS IN A POLICY SENSE.



I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THREE ISSUES WHICH HAVE THREE DIFFERENT PROBLEMS THAT ALREADY AROSE WITHIN THE IDN AT THE ROOT LEVEL.
THIS IS -- THE PRESENTATIONS AT THE PREVIOUS SESSION WERE ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES AS WELL AND WERE PREPARING -- THE DISCUSSION WAS HOW TO AVOID THE PROBLEMS AND HOW TO IMPLEMENT IDNS AT THE ROOT LEVEL.
I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT ALREADY HAPPENED.
SO SOME IDN IMPLEMENTATIONS AT THE ROOT LEVEL, ACTUALLY, NOT ROOT LEVEL, BUT THE IMPLEMENTATIONS WHICH IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, LIKE BY SOME ISPS ALLOW USERS TO HAVE ACCESS TO SO-CALLED IDNS AT THE ROOT LEVEL.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT SOLUTION, AND AS I UNDERSTAND, ICANN IS WORKING ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF IDNS AT THE ROOT LEVEL.
THE FIRST ISSUE IS, WE HAVE SOME EXISTING CCTLDS THAT ALREADY OFFER IDN.IDN REGISTRATION.
WE HAVE SOME COMPANIES THAT THEY OFFER POSSIBILITY TO REGISTER DOMAIN NAMES IN -- UNDER -- LOOKING LIKE CCTLDS.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE REGISTRY, THE OFFICIAL REGISTRY, WHICH RUNS THE CCTLD.
AND THE THIRD POSSIBILITY ARE LOCAL GTLD IMPLEMENTATIONS.
OKAY.
THE FIRST SITUATION WE HAVE WHEN THE EXISTING CCTLD IS OFFERING TO THE CUSTOMERS POSSIBILITY OF REGISTRATION OF THEIR DOMAIN NAME UNDER SO-CALLED GLOBAL IDN TLD.
BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT EXISTS IN THE ROOT SERVERS.
THE EXAMPLES ARE CHINA, THERE ARE SOME ARAB STATES.
MY COLLEAGUE FROM IRAN WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION I THINK ON TUESDAY ON THEIR IMPLEMENTATION.
BUT, GENERALLY, THIS IS, I WILL SAY, SOME KIND OF TEST BED.
SO IF THE USER IS CONNECTED TO THE ISP, INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER THAT OFFER RESOLUTION OF THOSE IDN CCTLDS, IT'S OKAY.
BUT IF THE USER IS, LET'S SAY, CHANGING THE ISP OR GOING ABROAD, HAS NO ACCESS TO SUCH DOMAIN NAME.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IT IS NOT -- IT'S NOT THE RISK TO DNS, BECAUSE WHEN WE HAVE THIS PROCESS OF IDN IMPLEMENTATION AT THE ROOT LEVEL ALREADY FINISHED, THIS IS JUST A DELEGATION OF SUCH DOT IDN CCTLD TO THE EXISTING CCTLD MANAGER.
SO, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS RATHER I'LL SAY EVEN IT'S FACILITATING ROLE, IT'S NOT A THREAT TO DNS.
BUT OF COURSE IT CAN MAKE SOME CONFUSION.
THE SECOND SITUATION IS THAT THE COMPANY, THE THIRD PARTY, NOT THE OFFICIAL COUNTRY-CODE TOP-LEVEL DOMAIN MANAGER, IS OFFERING TO CUSTOMERS THE POSSIBILITY OF REGISTRATION THEIR DOMAIN NAMES UNDER IDN CCTLD.
VERY OFTEN, THE CUSTOMERS ARE NOT AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT -- FIRST, THAT IT'S NOT THE OFFICIAL CCTLD FOR THE COUNTRY; AND, SECONDLY, THAT THIS IS ONLY -- SUCH DOMAIN NAMES ONLY RESOLVES IN SOME NETWORKS WHEN THEY ARE CONNECTED TO SOME ISPS.
AND WHEN WE HAVE THE PROCESS OF IDN.IDN IMPLEMENTATION WITH ICANN, WE WILL END UP IN THE SITUATION WHO IS THE MANAGER OF THE CCTLD.
AND THE THIRD POSSIBILITY, WHICH MAKES CURRENTLY CONFUSION TO THE INTERNET USERS, AND THIS IS, I THINK, VERY VISIBLE, AND MY COLLEAGUES FROM VERISIGN, AFILIAS, NEUSTAR CAN SHARE THEIR VIEWS PROBABLY, WHEN THERE IS A THIRD PARTY WHICH OFFERS REGISTRATION UNDER LOCAL DOT COM, DOT NET, DOT ORG, WE HAVE SEVERAL EXAMPLES.
WE HAVE ONE EXAMPLE REGISTERING DOMAIN NAMES IN CYRILLIC IN CYRILLIC DOT COM, DOT NET, DOT ORG.
WE HAVE COMPANY OFFERING DOMAIN NAMES IN KOREAN, IN HEBREW, ET CETERA.
AND WHEN THE USER WHO IS USING SUCH A DOMAIN NAME IS CHANGING THE ISP, OR ESPECIALLY FLYING ABROAD AND MOVING TO U.S. AND TRIES TO RESOLVE SUCH DOMAIN NAME, THERE'S A PROBLEM.
SO THEY ARE CALLING VERISIGN, WHY THE DOMAIN NAME IS NOT RESOLVING.
AND, OF COURSE, IT'S NOT THE VERISIGN OR WHOEVER'S FAULT.
IT IS -- THIS DOMAIN NAME DOES NOT EXIST.
AND HOW IT'S POSSIBLE?
VERY BRIEFLY, THE TECHNICAL ISSUES, WE CAN HAVE ONE POSSIBILITY IS THE PATCHING DNS.
IT'S VERY BAD SOLUTION.
WHEN THE ISP ALLOWS RESOLVING DOT IDNS DOMAIN NAMES NOT IN THE ROOT SERVER, BUT IN SOME OTHER NATIVE ROOT.
AND THE SECOND POTENTIAL SOLUTION, THEY ARE PLUG-INS TO THE INTERNET BROWSERS.
BUT THIS SOLUTION, IT'S NOT VERY POPULAR, BECAUSE, GENERALLY, USERS ARE NOT VERY KEEN ON DOWNLOADING NEW VERSIONS.
THIS ISP-BASED SOLUTION, ISP HAS TO MODIFY THE RESOLUTION, DOMAIN NAMES RESOLUTION PROCESS.
THEY HAVE TO RESOLVE SOME DOMAIN NAMES NOT IN THE GOLDEN DNS TREE, BUT IN SOME -- IN SOME OTHER ALTERNATIVE ROOT SERVERS.
AND, OF COURSE, WHEN USER IS NOT USING THAT ISP ANYMORE, WE END UP IN THE SITUATION THAT THIS DOMAIN NAME DOESN'T RESOLVE, AND USER IS CONFUSED.
IN THIS CASE, THE KEY ROLE OF THE INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS, AS I'VE BEEN TOLD, THERE IS MORE THAN 100 ISPS ALREADY OFFERING SUCH SERVICES.
STATISTICS, THERE IS MORE THAN 20,000 IDN.IDN DOMAIN NAMES ALREADY REGISTERED, IF WE CAN SAY "REGISTERED."
IT'S NOT AN IMPRESSIVE NUMBER, BUT, ANYWAY, THIS CONFUSES INTERNET USERS.

[bwhhisc]

This was a good analogy from the meeting, by the speaker from India:

QUOTE:
I would end my recommendation with a small, maybe a philosophical statement that the Wright Brothers probably would not have been able to fly their aircraft if they had waited for the Air Traffic Controller and its regime to be set up before they took off.

So the issue is that many times Technology moves ahead with a little disregard for the regime that exists. It may not be fully conducive, but if the equivalent of a Gac were there to constantly keep looking at all the Public-Policy Issues, then the Motor Car Manufacturer would not have been able to manufacturer a car which would have traveled at 300 Kilometers Per Hour, because every country would have taken the position that our maximum speeds are about 85 Miles, 110, 130, 140 Kilometers, or 200.

So the issue I am trying to bring forth is that it is time we identified some Basic Public-Policy Issues and reduced the complexities to a point where we can go ahead with the Idns. Because the majority of the world today does not speak or write English. Thank You. I can take questions. There won't be any.

>>Paul Twomey: "You have oviously spoken with wisdom there, Pankaj. I think you have instilled silence in the audience".

[sarcle]

A download is available here:

http://www.domainingblog.com/2006/06/icann-meets-in-morroco-puts-on-live.html

Thanks Duck.

[555]

Everyone agrees on one thing, World is in need for idn's, and soon, but the question remains...and i couldnt understand to which direction the wind blows based on that icann captioning: Dname? (.string) or NS-Record (Root implemantation)??

[Rubber Duck]

Everyone agrees on one thing, World is in need for idn's, and soon, but the question remains...and i couldnt understand to which direction the wind blows based on that icann captioning: Dname? (.string) or NS-Record (Root implemantation)??

Well I was very much getting the message that DNAME is the way forward but there might need to be some tweaking.

Anybody learnt anything new?

Reading through transcript for Sunday, they talked about the XN-- Hack. What seems to be being suggested is that ASCII names can be treated as a subset of IDN. In other words xn--Microsoft.com resolves the same as Microsoft.com. That being the case there is no reason why the xn-- could be dropped altogether, because the presumption would be that everything is in Punycode.

Efffectively ASCII.com ---> IDN.IDN

That might upset a few of the ASCII diehards if you can justifiably claim that all their domains are now IDN!!!

[Drewbert]

>What we need is to have an organized representation of IDN investors

Name one domain name investor that has identified himself as such at a prior IDN meeting, and survived the lynching.

[Rubber Duck]

>What we need is to have an organized representation of IDN investors

Name one domain name investor that has identified himself as such at a prior IDN meeting, and survived the lynching.

We do. It is called Verisign.

[blastfromthepast]

>What we need is to have an organized representation of IDN investors

Name one domain name investor that has identified himself as such at a prior IDN meeting, and survived the lynching.

Seriously, why is there such a negative view of domain investors? This needs to change.

[Drewbert]

My 2 guesses:

1. The IP crowd are pissed off that they missed the original boat?

2. The origins of the Internet explosion (university users) believe that people shouldn't make money from doains?

[OldIDNer]

Dname and NS records status is addressed here:

TINA DAM: SO ON THE STATUS UPDATE, WE'LL FIRST TAKE A LOOK AT ICANN ACTIVITIES SPECIFICALLY SINCE THE LAST ICANN MEETING IN NEW ZEALAND.
THAT IS FOCUSED -- THAT IS FOCUSED AROUND THE TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TEST PLAN AND NOT SO MUCH ON THE POLICY-RELATED AREA AS THAT WAS DISCUSSED ON THE SUNDAY'S WORKSHOP FOR THIS MEETING IN MOROCCO.
THEN I'LL EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE IDN PROGRAM PLAN THAT LIES WITHIN ICANN AND IS MANAGED BY ICANN STAFF IN DIFFERENT AREAS.
AND THEN WE'LL STEP DOWN AGAIN AND TAKE A CLOSER LOOK INTO A DRAFT REVISED PLAN FOR TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TESTS. AND THAT IS ACTUALLY A NEW PROPOSAL. AND I'M GOING TO UNDERLINE IT AGAIN LATER IN THIS PRESENTATION, BUT THIS IS A STAFF -- THIS IS A STAFF-BASED PROPOSAL THAT NEEDS TO GO THROUGH SOME VERY SPECIFIC PROCESS BEFORE IT CAN BE FINALIZED ON PARTICULAR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IDNS AND SO FORTH.
BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO AT LEAST PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT FINAL.
SO A QUICK OR SHORT REVIEW OF THE ACTIVITIES SINCE THE LAST ICANN MEETING. AND AGAIN, THIS IS ON THE TECHNICAL TEST AREA.
AS YOU MAY RECALL, IN MARCH WE RELEASED, VIA THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR IDNS, A PROPOSED PLAN FOR HOW TO PERFORM TECHNICAL TESTS OF INSERTING IDN TLD LABELS IN THE ROOT ZONE.
THE PROPOSED PLAN WAS DISCUSSED THROUGHOUT ACTUALLY BOTH APRIL AND MAY. WE HAD SOME INITIAL RSSAC DISCUSSIONS TO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THE PROPOSAL. THERE WERE SEVERAL COMMUNITY AND CONSTITUENCY DISCUSSIONS DURING THE ICANN MEETING IN WELLINGTON, ALTHOUGH WE DID NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC WORKSHOP ON IDNS AT THAT MEETING. IT WAS MORE LOCATED IN, LIKE, SMALLER GROUPS WITHIN THE DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES. THE THOUGHT WAS TO GET A MORE FOCUSED REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED PLANNING AND ISSUES THAT RELATE SPECIFICALLY AND TARGETED AT SPECIFIC CONSTITUENCIES INSTEAD OF A BIG FORUM AS WE HAVE HERE THIS TIME.
DURING MAY, ICANN STAFF DISCUSSED ALL OF THE INPUT THAT WAS RECEIVED.
AS YOU MIGHT RECALL, IF YOU FOLLOWED THE PROPOSED PLAN FOR TESTING, THE CORE PART OF THE PROPOSAL WAS TO TEST DNAMES AND NS RECORDS. SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT HAD TO DO WITH ROOT OPERATORS NOT RUNNING DNAME SOFTWARE. SEVERAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE MATURITY OF THE DNAME FUNCTIONALITY AND WHETHER THAT SHOULD NOT BE ANALYZED MORE DEEPLY BEFORE WE INITIATE ANY TESTING OF IT.
AND MORE FEEDBACK.
SO ICANN STAFF GATHERED THE FEEDBACK AND STARTED LOOKING AT HOW CAN WE REVISE THE PROPOSED PLAN AND CHANGE IT SO THAT IT WORKS FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THOSE WHO NEED TO TAKE PART IN THE TEST.
WE ALSO SOUGHT CONSULTATION FROM SEVERAL EXPERTS.
AND IN JUNE, WE THEN ENDED UP WITH A REVISED PROPOSED PLAN TO PRESENT TO DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS. AND I WILL GET BACK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER IN THE PRESENTATION.
WE ALSO HAVE A PROCESS FOR FINALIZING THAT TEST PLAN, AND I WILL GIVE YOU A VIEW OF THAT AS WELL.
ON THE IDN PROGRAM PLAN, AND THAT INCLUDES SOME OF THE WORK THAT WE DID IN REVISING THE TECHNICAL TEST, WHAT WE'VE DONE INTERNALLY IS TO DEVELOP THIS PROGRAM THAT WE CALL THE IDN PROGRAM PLAN.
IT ENCOMPASSES ALL ACTIONS AND DELIVERABLES THAT ARE NECESSARY TO DEPLOY IDNS AS WE SEE IT AT THIS STAGE.
CERTAINLY, SOME OF THE DEEPER ANALYSIS AND TESTING WILL MAKE US GO BACK AND REVISE SOME OF THESE ITEMS IN THE PROGRAM PLAN EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE THROUGH THIS PROCESS, AS IS DEEMED NECESSARY FROM THOSE RESULTS THAT WE GET FROM ANALYSIS AND TESTS.
HOWEVER, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THE PROGRAM PLAN IS COMPRISED OF A SET OF PROJECTS. THE PROJECTS ARE SOMEWHAT PLANNED SEPARATELY BUT THERE IS CORRELATION BETWEEN THE MILESTONES AND THE TASKS WITHIN THE DIFFERENT PROJECTS THAT HAS TO BE MANAGED ACROSS THE PROJECTS.
SO THE LIST IS TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TESTS. POLICY DEVELOPMENT, AS I MENTIONED, THAT WAS DISCUSSED IN THE SUNDAY'S WORKSHOP.
IDN GUIDELINES, IANA PROCESSES, OUTREACH PLANNING, AND COMMUNICATION PLANNING.
AND AS I STARTED OFF BY SAYING, THIS -- IN THIS STATUS REPORT FOR YOU, I'M GOING TO TAKE A FOCUS ON THE TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TEST PLAN.
JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND VIEW THIS TEST, THE GOAL WITH THE TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TEST THE SAME WAY, IT IS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT INSERTION OF IDN STRINGS INTO THE ROOT HAS NO APPRECIABLE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON EXISTING RESOLUTION. SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DNS STAYS STABLE AND SECURE WHEN WE ENTER IDN STRINGS INTO THE ROOT.
NOW, IT'S DIFFICULT TO PROVE A NEGATIVE, BUT WE CAN TAKE STEPS THAT ALLOW US TO SAY THAT WE ARE REASONABLY CERTAIN THAT THERE ARE NO ISSUES.
AND IN ORDER TO REACH THAT GOAL, WE NEED TO GO THROUGH A COMBINATION OF ACTIVITIES, WHICH WE'LL SHOW YOU HERE IN THE NEXT SLIDE.
NOW, THIS IS A PROPOSED REVISION OF THE TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL TEST PROPOSAL THAT WE ACCOMPLISHED IN MARCH. AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS GOING TO BE -- THE DETAILS OF THIS IS WITHIN A BRIEFING TO THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR IDNS THAT WILL BE MEETING TOMORROW LATE AFTERNOON.
SO BEFORE WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD THE DISCUSSION WITH THAT GROUP OF EXPERTS, THIS IS AS MUCH AS I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH IN JUST A LITTLE BIT, IS WHAT I HAVE FOR YOU TODAY.
NOW, THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE IS GOING TO DISCUSS THE NEW PLAN THAT STAFF HAVE BEEN WORKING ON TOGETHER WITH EXPERTS IN TRYING TO DEFINE IT MORE CLOSELY OR TO SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE MISSED THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE DIFFERENTLY.
THEN THERE IS GOING TO BE AN IETF MEETING IN MONTREAL FROM THE 9TH THROUGH THE 14TH OF JULY. AT THAT MEETING, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF SETTING UP SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH THE RSSAC AND THE ROOT OPERATORS AND ADDITIONAL -- AND ALSO OTHER ADDITIONAL WORKING GROUPS WITHIN THE IETF TO DISCUSS THE DETAILS OF THE PROPOSED PLAN.
THESE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAN, AND SO THIS IS THE CONSULTATION PHASE THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH OVER THE NEXT PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE ANYTHING CAN BE FINALIZED.
SO THE WAY THE PROPOSED PLAN LOOKS NOW IS NS RECORDS BASED ON PUNYCODE STRINGS WILL BE PERFORMED FIRST AS A TEST IN A LABORATORY.
THE DEFINITION OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BE TESTED AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING WHERE WE'LL BE ASKING FOR INPUT FROM DNS TECHNICAL AND OPERATIONAL EXPERTS AND THAT WILL GO THROUGH BOTH THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THE IETF AS I OUTLINED.

THEN THERE WILL BE A SUGGESTION TO BE PERFORMED AN OPERATIONAL PROCESS TEST. THE GOAL OF THIS TEST IS TO VERIFY THAT ALL OF THE PROCESSES FOR INSERTING IDN TLDS IN THE ROOT ARE FUNCTIONING AND ARE IN PLACE. THAT INCLUDES ANY ICANN PROCESSES, APPROVAL PROCESSES WITHIN THE ICANN BOARD, THE IANA PROCESSES FOR INSERTING THE STRINGS, AND DOC APPROVAL. AND WE SIMPLY WANT TO RUN THROUGH -- WE ARE SUGGESTING WE WANT TO RUN THROUGH AND TEST THAT OUT.
AND FINALLY, AS A LAST RESULT, TO DO THE DNS ROOT NAME SERVER TEST.
SO THAT'S ON THE NS RECORD SIDE.


ON THE DNAME SIDE, WE WILL GO THROUGH SOME DEEP ANALYSIS OF HOW TO FUNCTION -- OR HOW THE FUNCTIONALITY OF DNAME RESOURCE RECORDS STAND CURRENTLY. AND ALSO TO DEFINE ANY PRACTICAL IMPLICATION THAT MIGHT BE WITH THAT METHOD.
THAT ANALYSIS IS INTENDED TO SHOW WHETHER WE SHOULD PROCEED WITH SOME TESTING OR WHETHER THAT'S PREMATURE TO DO THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
SO THOSE TWO THINGS ARE GOING TO RUN IN PARALLEL TRACKS.
AND THIS IS MY LAST SLIDE. I MENTIONED QUITE A BIT ABOUT THE PROCESS BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO STRESS THAT THE DETAILS OF THE NEW PROPOSED PLAN NEEDS TO GO THROUGH A LOT OF CONSULTATION.
TOMORROW, WITH THE PRESIDENT'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IDNS, THERE NEEDS TO BE, NATURALLY, A REVIEW BY ICANN'S EXECUTIVE MANAGEMENT AND APPROVAL. AND MOVING FORWARD -- SO THERE WILL BE SOME DISCUSSION HERE TODAY, AND THEN MOVING FORWARD TO THE IETF MEETING IN MONTREAL, AFTER WHICH WE'LL PUBLISH IT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, AND AT THE END FINALIZE THE TEST PLAN AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY.
AND THAT CONCLUDES MY STATUS REPORT FOR TODAY.
>>VINT CERF: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, TINA. IT STRIKES ME THAT THIS IS ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS WHERE WE BETTER GET IT RIGHT, BECAUSE ONCE WE LAUNCH IT, IT WILL BE REAL HARD TO UNDO.
SO ONE OF THE REASONS FOR DOING A LOT OF ANALYSIS AND TESTING UP FRONT IS PRECISELY TO AVOID THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN'T BACK OUT.

[mulligan]

Thanks OLDIDNer

An easier-to-read version:


Tina Dam: So on the status update, we'll first take a look at ICANN activities specifically since the last ICANN meeting in New Zealand.
That is focused -- that is focused around the technical and operational test plan and not so much on the policy-related area as that was discussed on the Sunday’s workshop for this meeting in morocco.
Then I’ll explain a little bit about the IDN program plan that lies within ICANN and is managed by ICANN staff in different areas.
And then we'll step down again and take a closer look into a draft revised plan for technical and operational tests. And that is actually a new proposal. And I’m going to underline it again later in this presentation, but this is a staff -- this is a staff-based proposal that needs to go through some very specific process before it can be finalized on particular discussions with the president's advisory committee on IDNs and so forth.
But I thought it would be appropriate to at least provide an update on what we have so far, even though it's not final.
So a quick or short review of the activities since the last ICANN meeting. And again, this is on the technical test area.
As you may recall, in March we released, via the president's advisory committee for IDNs, a proposed plan for how to perform technical tests of inserting IDN tld labels in the root zone.
The proposed plan was discussed throughout actually both April and may. We had some initial rssac discussions to get some feedback on the proposal. There were several community and constituency discussions during the ICANN meeting in Wellington, although we did not have a specific workshop on IDNs at that meeting. It was more located in, like, smaller groups within the different constituencies. The thought was to get a more focused review of the proposed planning and issues that relate specifically and targeted at specific constituencies instead of a big forum as we have here this time.
During May, ICANN staff discussed all of the input that was received.
As you might recall, if you followed the proposed plan for testing, the core part of the proposal was to test dnames and ns records. Some of the feedback that we got had to do with root operators not running dname software. Several concerns about the maturity of the dname functionality and whether that should not be analyzed more deeply before we initiate any testing of it.
And more feedback.
So ICANN staff gathered the feedback and started looking at how can we revise the proposed plan and change it so that it works for the community and those who need to take part in the test.
We also sought consultation from several experts.
And in June, we then ended up with a revised proposed plan to present to different stakeholders. And I will get back to that a little bit later in the presentation.
We also have a process for finalizing that test plan, and I will give you a view of that as well.
On the IDN program plan, and that includes some of the work that we did in revising the technical test, what we've done internally is to develop this program that we call the IDN program plan.
It encompasses all actions and deliverables that are necessary to deploy IDNs as we see it at this stage.
Certainly, some of the deeper analysis and testing will make us go back and revise some of these items in the program plan every once in a while through this process, as is deemed necessary from those results that we get from analysis and tests.
However, at this point in time, the program plan is comprised of a set of projects. The projects are somewhat planned separately but there is correlation between the milestones and the tasks within the different projects that has to be managed across the projects.
So the list is technical and operational tests. Policy development, as I mentioned, that was discussed in the Sunday’s workshop.
IDN guidelines, iana processes, outreach planning, and communication planning.
And as I started off by saying, this -- in this status report for you, I’m going to take a focus on the technical and operational test plan.
Just to make sure that we're all on the same page and view this test, the goal with the technical and operational test the same way, it is to demonstrate that insertion of IDN strings into the root has no appreciable negative impact on existing resolution. So we want to make sure that the DNS stays stable and secure when we enter IDN strings into the root.
Now, it's difficult to prove a negative, but we can take steps that allow us to say that we are reasonably certain that there are no issues.
And in order to reach that goal, we need to go through a combination of activities, which we'll show you here in the next slide.
Now, this is a proposed revision of the technical and operational test proposal that we accomplished in March. And as I mentioned earlier, this is going to be -- the details of this is within a briefing to the president's advisory committee for IDNs that will be meeting tomorrow late afternoon.
So before we have actually had the discussion with that group of experts, this is as much as I’m going to go through in just a little bit, is what I have for you today.
Now, the president's advisory committee is going to discuss the new plan that staff have been working on together with experts in trying to define it more closely or to see if there's something that we have missed that needs to be done differently.
Then there is going to be an ietf meeting in Montréal from the 9th through the 14th of July. At that meeting, we're in the process of setting up several meetings with the rssac and the root operators and additional -- and also other additional working groups within the ietf to discuss the details of the proposed plan.
These are all individuals who need to be involved in the plan, and so this is the consultation phase that we are going to go through over the next period of time before anything can be finalized.
So the way the proposed plan looks now is ns records based on punycode strings will be performed first as a test in a laboratory.
The definition of the issues that are going to be tested again, as I mentioned, is going to be something where we'll be asking for input from DNS technical and operational experts and that will go through both the president's advisory committee and the ietf as I outlined.
Then there will be a suggestion to be performed an operational process test. The goal of this test is to verify that all of the processes for inserting IDN tlds in the root are functioning and are in place. That includes any ICANN processes, approval processes within the ICANN board, the iana processes for inserting the strings, and doc approval. And we simply want to run through -- we are suggesting we want to run through and test that out.
And finally, as a last result, to do the DNS root name server test.
So that's on the ns record side.
On the dname side, we will go through some deep analysis of how to function -- or how the functionality of dname resource records stand currently. And also to define any practical implication that might be with that method.
That analysis is intended to show whether we should proceed with some testing or whether that's premature to do that at this point in time.
So those two things are going to run in parallel tracks.
And this is my last slide. I mentioned quite a bit about the process because it's important for me to stress that the details of the new proposed plan needs to go through a lot of consultation.
Tomorrow, with the president's advisory committee on IDNs, there needs to be, naturally, a review by ICANN's executive management and approval. And moving forward -- so there will be some discussion here today, and then moving forward to the ietf meeting in Montréal, after which we'll publish it for public comment, and at the end finalize the test plan and make it available for everybody.
And that concludes my status report for today.
>>vint cerf: thank you very much, Tina. It strikes me that this is one of those projects where we better get it right, because once we launch it, it will be real hard to undo.
So one of the reasons for doing a lot of analysis and testing up front is precisely to avoid the possibility that we can't back out.

[thefabfive]

For those who don't want to read the whole thing here's my summary:

"We need to do more tests."

[Rubber Duck]

For those who don't want to read the whole thing here's my summary:

"We need to do more tests."

Yes, except that implies that they have actually done something.

[thefabfive]

It seems to me that China and other foreign governments should stop pushing ICANN for IDN implementation. ICANN, DNAME, and NS-Space are so far largely irrelevant.

To get large scale IDN implementation, the non-English speaking world should be pushing Microsoft to get IE7 out. That's the biggest hurdle to the IDN world.

[Rubber Duck]

It seems to me that China and other foreign governments should stop pushing ICANN for IDN implementation. ICANN, DNAME, and NS-Space are so far largely irrelevant.

To get large scale IDN implementation, the non-English speaking world should be pushing Microsoft to get IE7 out. That's the biggest hurdle to the IDN world.

Didn't Hu meet Bill in Seatle the other day? The thing is they are two different organisations. In one you need to pursuade Bill, in the other other you have an interminable process that largely makes no sense. For this reason the approaches are probably somewhat different.

[Giant]

It seems to me that China and other foreign governments should stop pushing ICANN for IDN implementation. ICANN, DNAME, and NS-Space are so far largely irrelevant.

To get large scale IDN implementation, the non-English speaking world should be pushing Microsoft to get IE7 out. That's the biggest hurdle to the IDN world.

Exactly!

What do we really want? IDN! And we got it already, IDN.com, IDN.cn, IDN.jp... they are IDN domains, no more no less. BUT now we want IDN.IDN, ok, we can achieve it through browser or Input Method Programs easily but we want to create hundreds of XN-- domains in the root? A little too big a step in the policy level, not technical level.

I have an advice to all our members:

Forget about IDN.IDN, just do whatever you need to do for IDN domains IDN.com, IDN.jp.... Let the people at registrar level and ICANN to take care of IDN.IDN discussions.

IE7 is the only thing we need to focus our plan on, IE7 and all other Input Method Programs will solve the IDN.IDN user interface problem very soon, and then IDN TLDs in the root will become irrelevant, and nobody will think they are neccessary any more.

[Olney]

You know Giant I think the exact same thing. IDN.jp & IDN.com will do great even if IDN.IDN doesn't happen anytime soon.

I know many people want it's the same few extensions jp, com, net, tv, or maybe cc
These are easy to type...

IE7 is the thing really missing I think.


I have an advice to all our members:

Forget about IDN.IDN, just do whatever you need to do for IDN domains IDN.com, IDN.jp.... Let the people at registrar level and ICANN to take care of IDN.IDN discussions.

IE7 is the only thing we need to focus our plan on, IE7 and all other Input Method Programs will solve the IDN.IDN user interface problem very soon, and then IDN TLDs in the root will become irrelevant, and nobody will think they are neccessary any more.

[domainguru]

You know Giant I think the exact same thing. IDN.jp & IDN.com will do great even if IDN.IDN doesn't happen anytime soon.

I know many people want it's the same few extensions jp, com, net, tv, or maybe cc
These are easy to type...

IE7 is the thing really missing I think.

Yeah I agree with all of this. If DNAME happens (and quickly), a great bonus. If ICANN spend yet more years faffing around with "getting IDN right", then (in Thailand) IDN.com will fill the void very very nicely. IDN.IDN is not a pre-requisite for IDNs to be valuable, IE7 full release is.

[touchring]

It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways and up to speculation, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement idn.idn, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. The same with .il and .gr.

[555]

Giant you wrote "input method programs" can you please explain/show what are you refering to?

Thanks

[domainguru]

It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement .china, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. With IE7, RUNIC might be pressured to enable idn support, so things might change along the way.

That's why I put "(In Thailand)" in the post :)

[kenne]

Giant you wrote "input method programs" can you please explain/show what are you refering to?


Thanks
Unlike Latin based languages, Chinese Ideograms are inputted through softwares (input programs) that map latin alphabet combos to ideograms.

Different programs implement different maping (method)

[Rubber Duck]

It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways and up to speculation, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement idn.idn, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. The same with .il and .gr.

Yes, but it is also going to take organisation, commitment and time, none of which are apparent at the moment. If the Chinese have achieved anything at all, it most certainly has been by accident.

Having said that if Microsoft take 3 more years to release IE 7.0 Runic could be a serious threat by then!

Unlike Latin based languages, Chinese Ideograms are inputted through softwares (input programs) that map latin alphabet combos to ideograms.

Different programs implement different maping (method)

Is that a reference to the fact that there are several version of Pinyin in use for computer inputting?

[555]

Originally Posted by touchring
It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement .china, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. With IE7, RUNIC might be pressured to enable idn support, so things might change along the way.

Can someone tell me please...if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py ?? (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py ??)

Thanks

[thefabfive]

With the Russian government regulations on .ru and no implementation of .ru -> .py in sight, I think Russian IDN.com (with or without IDN.IDN) has a bright future.

...our .com's will be mapped to the new .py... Our .coms will not be mapped to .py. If they eventually get their act together and deem it worthwhile then .ru will map to .py. Although with the stranglehold that the Russian government has on .ru I think a movement towards .com is likely just to avoid the regulations.

[touchring]

Originally Posted by touchring
It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement .china, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. With IE7, RUNIC might be pressured to enable idn support, so things might change along the way.

Can someone tell me please...if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py ?? (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py ??)

Thanks

Ok, to clarify, idn.ru was introduced and then withdrawn. Next, .py is idn.idn, i used py to represent the Russian characters for .ru. The general concensus here is that if runic were to implement idn.idn, they will use .py. Also, Drewbert pointed out that ICANN might not agree to .py as it looks too much like Panama's cltd.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by touchring
It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement .china, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. With IE7, RUNIC might be pressured to enable idn support, so things might change along the way.

Can someone tell me please...if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py ?? (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py ??)

Thanks

The biggest issue for .RU admin folks is that .ру looks like the extention that Paraguay uses (py). So, there is a big chance .RU admin folks will delay the whole thing, change it to рф (Russian Federation) or do something else, thus elevating .com to #1 position in Russian IDN market.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by touchring
It's not as simple as that.

I can't say for most languages like chinese or japanese, but as they are borderline cases where it can go both ways, but take .py for example, if they are going to implement it like the way the chinese implement .china, it is going to pose a serious threat to russian.com. Despite the diverse views among forum members, I think no one will disgree on the .py issue. With IE7, RUNIC might be pressured to enable idn support, so things might change along the way.

Can someone tell me please...if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py ??? (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py ???)

Thanks

Dot RU dominates the Russian Internet at present as does Yandex the Russian search engine. In an equal world it would not be unreasonable to expect Russians to migrate from Dot RU to .py. However, it would appear that even policy formulation on this issue is a complete and utter shambles. We are not even talking about preparatory stage of organisation prior to implementation.

For the reason when IE 7.0 hits the streets it is like that IDN.com is going to make massive inroads into the market. In the absense of organised opposition it is difficult to seriously envisage any other outcome.

But who knows? This may be the problem that burst the imaginary bubble in the dot IDN.com market.

[touchring]

But who knows?

This is the message i am trying to convey in general, unless you are god, you can't know for sure.

[555]

No one knows..thats the only thing we all know ...
even today, type in google нет or ком and you will see there are many russian sites that use it in title etc..so its not a completly new thing to russians

but just so i understand..RD, IF...idn.idn comes to life ..will it:
if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py )

Thanks!
Michael

[Rubber Duck]

This is the message i am trying to convey in general, unless you are god, you can't know for sure.


There isn't a market in Russian IDN.com, apart from the odd isolated sale, there never has been a market. How the hell can there be a bubble, if there is no market? I think we can be pretty certain of our facts on that one!

No one knows..thats the only thing we all know ...
even today, type in google нет or ком and you will see there are many russian sites that use it in title etc..so its not a completly new thing to russians

but just so i understand..RD, IF...idn.idn comes to life ..will it:
if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py )

Thanks!
Michael

Well at least someone here is applying a few logical thought processes.

I have domains, which are generic. They transliterate into ASCII which has been registered and used for substantial commercial sites, that don't promote themselves with the ASCII, but do promote themselves using the original Russian, with the dot com in Latin characters. In other words they are promoting their sites using my domains. Am I worried. No not unduly.

The other thing that needs to be considered is the extent to which Russian and much Russian vocabulary extends over other territories. A lot of prime terms also work in the Ukraine, Kazahkstan and elsewhere.

[touchring]

There isn't a market in Russian IDN.com, apart from the odd isolated sale, there never has been a market. How the hell can there be a bubble, if there is no market? I think we can be pretty certain of our facts on that one!


No, i am not referring to Russian, just the whole forum in general.

There is too much market influencing comments by forum members, sweeping statements (which may turn out to be true in some cases). This is becoming a disease and getting infectious, even members that were formerly neutral are getting affected.

Of cos, everyone needs to make a living, and selling domains is one of the ways, and we can't deny people from promoting their domains, but there must be some form of "moderation".

I'm with this forum for 7 months and i've seen how it has transformed, and how i wish we got back to the Dec to Feb days when everyone were nice. I think the culprit is greed, too much greed around right now.

[burnsinternet]

No one knows..thats the only thing we all know ...
even today, type in google нет or ком and you will see there are many russian sites that use it in title etc..so its not a completly new thing to russians

but just so i understand..RD, IF...idn.idn comes to life ..will it:
if and when they will go for the .py - our .com's will be mapped to the new .py (because if i understand correctly if they go with .py we will have to try and reg new completly diffrent story idn..py )

Thanks!
Michael

Our IDNs (.net and .com) would be mapped to .нет and .ком

[Drewbert]

I whish you people would stop talking about .ru -> .py as if it has the remotest chance of appearing in the ICANN root.

IT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

And if .ru sticks it in their local NS, people will start regging paraguayan domains to phish russian bank sites.

NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

[Rubber Duck]

No, i am not referring to Russian, just the whole forum in general.

There is too much market influencing comments by forum members, sweeping statements (which may turn out to be true in some cases). This is becoming a disease and getting infectious, even members that were formerly neutral are getting affected.

Of cos, everyone needs to make a living, and selling domains is one of the ways, and we can't deny people from promoting their domains, but there must be some form of "moderation".

I'm with this forum for 7 months and i've seen how it has transformed.

If one has to be brutally honest, the most bizarre theories on here is how you can build up future traffic estimates from current traffic figures, whilst we go through the transition from no web content and no browser support, to general browser support and an unknown level of IDN registrations and associated web content. Frankly, that was about as informative as looking in one of Lewis Carrols novels for useful parallels.

I think you need to be a more tolerant of others and a bit more objective about your own views and opinions.

[touchring]

If one has to be brutally honest, the most bizarre theories on here is how you can build up future traffic estimates from current traffic figures, whilst we go through the transition from no web content and no browser support, to general browser support and an unknown level of IDN registrations and associated web content. Frankly, that was about as informative as looking in one of Lewis Carrols novels for useful parallels.

I think you need to be a more tolerant of others and a bit more objective about your own views and opinions.


Yes, i am learning to be tolerant. Also, if i'm wrong, tell me i'm wrong, i will correct myself if i can see my wrong.

But everyone wants traffic? You do not want traffic?

I am promoting traffic topics because this is good for everyone, but this is not to say that generics with no traffic are not valuable - as you said, it's too early to determine future traffic.

If you disgree, please counter my topics directly.

[Drewbert]

Another problem with placing a 2 letter cyrillic DNAME (for russian or greek) in the root that appears to be same/similar to latin characters is that if a new country is formed or a country changes it's name, and the ISO 2 letter table is updated and a 2 letter code is picked that Russian or Greece decided to use as their .idn, that breaks the ICANN ccTLD -> ISO table mapping.

Russia would be better off on gunning for a 2 letter that includes a non-matching char (like рф mentioned earlier), or a 3 letter cyrillic abreviation like рус.

[domainguru]

No, i am not referring to Russian, just the whole forum in general.

There is too much market influencing comments by forum members, sweeping statements (which may turn out to be true in some cases). This is becoming a disease and getting infectious, even members that were formerly neutral are getting affected.

Of cos, everyone needs to make a living, and selling domains is one of the ways, and we can't deny people from promoting their domains, but there must be some form of "moderation".

I'm with this forum for 7 months and i've seen how it has transformed, and how i wish we got back to the Dec to Feb days when everyone were nice. I think the culprit is greed, too much greed around right now.

This forum lost a lot credibility in my eyes at the time of the "IDN billionare" poll. I found the whole thing excrutiatingly embarrassing. People make a few reasonable sales and suddenly they are going to be the richest dudes on the planet. Nobody is going to make a billion from IDNs. Get real everyone.

As for "market influencing" comments, I think you overestimate the importance of this forum to the "outside world". I have talked to several professional domainers about this forum, all with IDN portfolios, and their comments were decidedly mixed. Most buyers will have never visited this forum and never will.

This forum is (or was) a decent place to talk about and trade IDNs, but that's about it. Let's not pretend it is the centre of the domain universe or influences "market forces" to any great extent.

[555]

Good Point Drewbert,
if icann agrees with you then no worries.

I recieved an email from ru nic a couple of weeks ago saying:

IDN registration in .RU isn't available yet but it is planned.
Now all .RU domain names with hyphens in the third and the fourth
positions simultaneously are reserverd by the .RU Registry for IDN
registrations.

Unfortunately, there's still no information on the date IDN registration
in .RU will be open. Technically speaking the system is ready but
Coordination Centre for TLD .RU (superior body over .RU Registrars) has
to finish with the development of the IDN registration rules.

[touchring]

This forum lost a lot credibility in my eyes at the time of the "IDN billionare" poll. I found the whole thing excrutiatingly embarrassing. People make a few reasonable sales and suddenly they are going to be the richest dudes on the planet. Nobody is going to make a billion from IDNs. Get real everyone.

As for "market influencing" comments, I think you overestimate the importance of this forum to the "outside world". I have talked to several professional domainers about this forum, all with IDN portfolios, and their comments were decidedly mixed. Most buyers will have never visited this forum and never will.

This forum is (or was) a decent place to talk about and trade IDNs, but that's about it. Let's not pretend it is the centre of the domain universe or influences "market forces" to any great extent.


Market -> i'm referring to the IDNF market. I didn't really thought much about the IDN billionaire poll - i thought everyone is just engaging in fantasy play.

Well, i'm sure many of us here still want this forum to thrive, that's why we are trying to bring back the credibility.

[domainguru]

Market -> i'm referring to the IDNF market.

Ah ok. Well it seems the "market influencers" (if they exist) can't be doing such a great job at the moment, as the number of big sales isn't exactly stellar.

[touchring]

Ah ok. Well it seems the "market influencers" (if they exist) can't be doing such a great job at the moment, as the number of big sales isn't exactly stellar.


Whatever it is, as you said, credibility is at stake, whether there are big sales will not affect how people view this forum. That market influencing talk is no longer influencing the market doesn't mean that the forum has become more credible. So, we need to work out the problem so as to bring back credibility to our forum - i think the key is in "moderation".

[Rubber Duck]

Ah ok. Well it seems the "market influencers" (if they exist) can't be doing such a great job at the moment, as the number of big sales isn't exactly stellar.


Exactly, the ASCII market crashed after seven figure sales were achieved. I am fairly confident that no one on here has hard evidence of a six figure sale. At the moment, we won't account for 1% of the overall domain market. So where is all this "Irrational Exubberance" that is in danger of evaporating?

Whatever it is, as you said, credibility is at stake, whether there are big sales will not affect how people view this forum. That market influencing talk is no longer influencing the market doesn't mean that the forum has become more credible. So, we need to work out the problem so as to bring back credibility to our forum - i think the key is in "moderation".

With the membership growing at a faster rate than ever before and representing ever more linguistic groups, I am not convinced that we have a major credibility problem.

[Giant]

Giant you wrote "input method programs" can you please explain/show what are you refering to?

Thanks

Sorry for missing your post again :-) Here's definition of Input Method:

input method — any mechanism used to enter textual data, such as keyboards, speech recognition or handwriting recognition. The most common form of input method is the keyboard. The term "input method" is intended to include all forms of keyboard handling, including but not limited to input methods that are available for Chinese and other very-large-character-set languages and that are commonly known as input method editors (IMEs). An IME is taken to be a specific type of the more general class of input methods.

I am not articulate enough to explain technical stuff, but I try to use examples :-)

Let's assume .com is translated to .公司

A lot of languages other than English use a small program (instead of a different keyboard) to input their characters. Let me show you how I input Chinese characters:

-We have probably about 10 popular ways to input Chinese characters by using 10 different programs. The one I use is Pinyin Input Method, and this program comes with MS Windows, and I installed it when I set up Windows.

-In normal mode, my keyboard produce ASCII letters. But when I want to type Chinese, I click on the mode button to change input mode. If I type GONG, I see it as GONG, till I press Enter or Space Key I will get 公.

Now for inputting 公.com. After I use Chinese mode to get 公, I have to press the SHIFT key (or click on the Mode button) to get back to normal mode, and then type .com to get 公.com.

Yes, it's quite annoying to shift back and forth. So we ask, we can have IDN.com, why can't we have IDN.IDN as well? so that we don't have to shift the mode.

公.com ---> 公.公司

It's very easy for Microsoft to solve this "interface" problem, (I will show you later) but if ICANN can set up DNAME at the server level then we don't need to wait for Microsoft to do anything. Let's look at some cases:

a) If I type in 公.com, IE7 will send xn--55q.com to the root server. (annoying but it works)

b) If I type in 公.公司, IE7 will send xn--55q.xn--55q to the root server (easy to type and no shifting, but it won't work)

Microsoft can have 2 options to make b) work and user happy.

1) Let users type in 公。公司 as they feel convenient, but translate 公。公司 to xn--55q.com before sending out to the server.

This option is for people like to see IDN.IDN

2) Modify the Pinyin input program. Currently, 。COM does not produce any character, change it to produce ASCII ".com".
So, in the Chinese input mode, when "。COM" is typed together, display ".com" instead of "。COM". And send xn--55q.com out as it is to the server.

This option is for people ok with IDN.com

Although MS has to do a little more work in the case that any language's input program does produce a character when "。COM" is typed together, but it's still can be easily solved.

If all browsers do all the dirty work for the root server, we don't need to add anything to the ROOT.

[touchring]

b) If I type in 公.公司, IE7 will send xn--55q.xn--55q to the root server (easy to type and no shifting, but it won't work)



It won't work unless you are in China, or you set your Windows default DNS to one of those Chinese ISP which will forward all .xn--55q to .cn.

If you are using Firefox there is no need to press shift to input .com.

For Microsoft IE, my side, i am using Alt-Shift to switch keys, alternatively, i enter .COM (for caps, there's no need to shift key - nowadays i do this as i can use my little finger to hold on Shift).

With so much additional pressing, so why not just type Gong.com? No key shifting, no spacing, no selection.

[Giant]

With so much additional pressing, so why not just type gong.com? No key shifting, no spacing, no selection.

You missed the point again! Is gong.com IDN.IDN?

We are talking about how a browser can do to satisfy Chinese users of their local typing habit 公。公司.

[blastfromthepast]

Russia would be better off on gunning for a 2 letter that includes a non-matching char (like рф mentioned earlier), or a 3 letter cyrillic abreviation like рус.

Why should .PY have any precedence over Russia?

Modify the Pinyin input program. Currently, 。COM does not produce any character, change it to produce ASCII ".com".
So, in the Chinese input mode, when "。COM" is typed together, display ".com" instead of "。COM". And send xn--55q.com out as it is to the server.


Excellent idea Giant. This can easily be done by editing the Library of the input system. Why don't you create such an IME library update and release it?

Also, it is not necessary to translate 。 into . as all the "full stops" are translated into . by punycode converstion algorithms already.

[Giant]

Why should .PY have any precedence over Russia?



Excellent idea Giant. This can easily be done by editing the Library of the input system. Why don't you create such an IME library update and release it?

Also, it is not necessary to translate 。 into . as all the "full stops" are translated into . by punycode converstion algorithms already.

Yes, "library" is the technical term we use. I am glad to help MS if they are 2-person small company :)

[Drewbert]

>Why should .PY have any precedence over Russia?

Errrm. Because it's an existing ccTLD that's on the ISO 2 letter country chart, and has been operational for years?

Is that good enough?