Is Paypal History?

[Rubber Duck]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5128126.stm

[networker]

I love Paypal, and I personally will stick with them, as I am more than satisfied by their service.

I don't think Google Checkout will ever surpass Paypal.. atleast in the immediate future.

[rhys]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5128126.stm

I discussed this today at length with my old boss at MSN, I think Paypal will be just fine and the competition is great for the space. There's definitely room enough for at least 2 players.

[Rubber Duck]

I love Paypal, and I personally will stick with them, as I am more than satisfied by their service.

I don't think Google Checkout will ever surpass Paypal.. atleast in the immediate future.

Well Paypal have pissed me off this week, as we opened a UK based dollar account. Paypal won't allow you to withdraw to anything in the UK except £Sterling.

Competition in the market would be good also as Paypal actually manage to screw an awful lot of money out one way and another. First they stich you up with the basic charges, which are not cheap, then you get hammered on the exchange rate, and you get charged again for withdrawing your money. A lot of the charges can go almost unnoticed but they add up to a very expensive service.

[networker]

Well Paypal have pissed me off this week, as we opened a UK based dollar account. Paypal won't allow you to withdraw to anything in the UK except £Sterling.

Competition in the market would be good also as Paypal actually manage to screw an awful lot of money out one way and another. First they stich you up with the basic charges, which are not cheap, then you get hammered on the exchange rate, and you get charged again for withdrawing your money. A lot of the charges can go almost unnoticed but they add up to a very expensive service.

Sorry to hear that. I've heard complaints about Paypal, though in the 4 years that I've been a member with them, I've never personally had a problem.

To cut down on fees, I have a business account (to accept credit card payments), and a personal account (so I am not charged a fee on every transaction). I don't have to worry about the exchange rate, as I am in the U.S., and I don't have any withdrawal fees for transfers to my bank account.

All-in-all, I love Paypal. :)

[mulligan]

I for one dont like PP. They are a law unto themselves and their TOS that we all never read covers every possible angle that prevents them from losing any money whatsoever.
A piece of advice -- Use your credit card via paypal if buying anything over an amount that you cant afford to lose. Why? Coz if you get screwed and dont get your name/goods/whatever your credit card company will pursue it until it is resolved regardless of what PP say... You try and get money back through PP's resolution service and see how far it gets you... You tell your credit card company you wanna do a charge back and they will. As long as it is legitimate.

If you take a close look at PP's TOS do you realise that you have given them permission to take money from your credit card or attached bank account if the want to? Well they can and do. They also have a clause that enables them to change their TOS anytime they like without informing you, for any reason.

The reason they are not a bank as many mistakenly thnk they are is coz they dont have to answer to as many 'laws'
If they were a bank they would be shut down today.
They abide by no-ones rules except their own and they make those up as they go along...As long as its in their TOS they are covered
I know from experience what they are like and can tell you if you have a problem then forget it coz you aint getting money back.

You can select your payment method at checkout, be wise and use your credit card.

Also, as domains are not a physcal entity PP dont even wanna hear it. You will lose and thats that. They dont care about whois records or reciepts. Your CC company WILL listen and WILL get your money back.

All of this is hidden away in the dark corners of their TOS if you have the patience or inclination to read it all, and then figure out what they are actually saying..

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, scope for improved customer service there perhaps!

[mulligan]

One other thing.
Use a bank account that you can close without any problems. Not the one you have your mortgage tied to or the car repayments or the kids school fees. Use it to transfer money out of PP and immediately transfer it to another bank account. They cant touch it from there.
Same goes for the CC card -- Use a throwaway one that wont cause problems if they decide to suck $xxx from it for whatever reason. Your CC company wont let them get away with it and will just take the money back from them. But you dont wanna be stuck with a $xxx CC bill when other fees are supposed to come out of it and theres suddenly nothing there while they sort it out...

[Drewbert]

Interestingly, Paypal is about to move all non-US customers away from paypal USA to a new company set up in Singapore.

Haven't found out the reason behind this yet.

Might be somethign to do with liability issues of overseas clients when the NSA goes wading through their database without a FISA warrant.

[idn]

www.paypalsucks.com

[domainguru]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5128126.stm

For me, this ties in with Google's announcement about launching CPA advertising, as if Google are the company behind payments, they will know exactly what each Google advertiser is making from them and be able to calculate CPA.

It could all get a bit scary in a couple of years, with Google covering every angle. Could seriously endanger the PPC model as well. In a couple of years we could all be earning CPA income rather than PPC...

[Rubber Duck]

For me, this ties in with Google's announcement about launching CPA advertising, as if Google are the company behind payments, they will know exactly what each Google advertiser is making from them and be able to calculate CPA.

It could all get a bit scary in a couple of years, with Google covering every angle. Could seriously endanger the PPC model as well. In a couple of years we could all be earning CPA income rather than PPC...

Yes, I haven't got my head around this yet.

On the surface CPA seems more interesting to Resellers but no doubt it will be an attempt by Google to grab an even bigger slice of the cake. There will obviously be a balance point between PPC and CPA.

I think the real problem with CPA is verification. If it relies in any shape or form on the Reseller owning up to the value of transactions, then it is doomed.

[domainguru]

Yes, I haven't got my head around this yet.

I think the real problem with CPA is verification. If it relies in any shape or form on the Reseller owning up to the value of transactions, then it is doomed.

CPA has to work independently of "owning up", for obvious reason :)

That is one reason why Google are so keen to take payments themselves. It makes them a "total solutions provider", and means they won't have to faff about with "affiliate software".

To my mind, CPA is the "end game" for online advertising. To start with, we had CPM, where advertisers paid $40 for 1000 ads and couldn't even guarantee anyone clicked. Then that blew up, and changed into CPC - where at least advertisers could guarantee getting some clicks for their money. But how many turn into sales? How many are fraudulent? ...

So we are left with CPA, where advertisers only pay if they get a sale. What could be better than that from a merchant perspective? And beats TV advertising any day :)

[Rubber Duck]

So we are left with CPA, where advertisers only pay if they get a sale. What could be better than that from a merchant perspective? And beats TV advertising any day :)

Yes, on the surface it sounds much more interesting, but only if your Ad Bill ends up being a smaller percentage of your turnover. That will not necessarily be Google's main objective.

[domainguru]

Yes, on the surface it sounds much more interesting, but only if your Ad Bill ends up being a smaller percentage of your turnover. That will not necessarily be Google's main objective.

No but I think they aware of the increasing uneasiness in the ad community about the value of PPC. CPA is ultimately a more efficient mechanism than PPC, and must succeed long-term. Nobody likes paying for fraudulent clicks, whether they come from competitors or PPC parkers or anywhere else.

[Rubber Duck]

No but I think they aware of the increasing uneasiness in the ad community about the value of PPC. CPA is ultimately a more efficient mechanism than PPC, and must succeed long-term. Nobody likes paying for fraudulent clicks, whether they come from competitors or PPC parkers or anywhere else.

The other problem, I envisage with this system is that it is not one size fits all. Many smaller businesses won't be able to gear up to do this, and many business transactions are not suited to online completion. I can only see this operating along side PPC, rather than totally replacing it.

The other question is, how easy is this going to be to roll out globally, or will it be largely limited to the US initially?

[domainguru]

The other problem, I envisage with this system is that it is not one size fits all. Many smaller businesses won't be able to gear up to do this, and many business transactions are not suited to online completion. I can only see this operating along side PPC, rather than totally replacing it.

The other question is, how easy is this going to be to roll out globally, or will it be largely limited to the US initially?

It's US only to start, just like Paypal was. But I bet Google roll out globally quicker than Paypal did.

Just something to keep an eye on over the next year or two - the gradual replacement of PPC advertising with CPA ...

I haven't really thought how it will affect our income. But one thing is obvious - anyone that is relying on any kind of "dodgy" traffic is likely to see income declining steeply in the future.

[Rubber Duck]

I haven't really thought how it will affect our income. But one thing is obvious - anyone that is relying on any kind of "dodgy" traffic is likely to see income declining steeply in the future.

Well all Scams get rumbled in the end.

I think the most lucrative line of business of DNF in the last year, has been selling "Typos" with Engineered Traffic. There is one born every minute!

[domainguru]

Well all Scams get rumbled in the end.

I think the most lucrative line of business of DNF in the last year, has been selling "Typos" with Engineered Traffic. There is one born every minute!

lol - yeah, i get offered a lot of dodgy traffic names, especially ones with sedo "traffic stats", showing 3,000 unique "type-in" visitors per month for eonlinetravel4younow.com or similar. They can even show me the server stats sometimes. I just play along, wondering why these people haven't got a more productive way to spend their time.

[TrafficDomainer]

Well Paypal have pissed me off this week, as we opened a UK based dollar account. Paypal won't allow you to withdraw to anything in the UK except £Sterling.

Competition in the market would be good also as Paypal actually manage to screw an awful lot of money out one way and another. First they stich you up with the basic charges, which are not cheap, then you get hammered on the exchange rate, and you get charged again for withdrawing your money. A lot of the charges can go almost unnoticed but they add up to a very expensive service.

Hi Rubber Duck,

There is a way to get around the issue you raised, you could try contacting a bank in the UK that has a branch/office in the US and open an account in the US in $US . HSBC and Citibank are 2 banks I know that can offer such service from offshore locations. I live in Canada and got a US Bank account in the US. I generally withdraw my paypal funds through my US account and incur no fees. I then write a cheque from my US account and deposit into my local Canadian Bank in US currency. Hope this helps.

[Drewbert]

Anyone outside the USA and outside their tax system is crazy to open a bank account of any sort in the USA, IMHO.

Unless you want to be swallowed up into their tax system, which is virtually impossible to re-imerge from.

[TrafficDomainer]

Anyone outside the USA and outside their tax system is crazy to open a bank account of any sort in the USA, IMHO.

Unless you want to be swallowed up into their tax system, which is virtually impossible to re-imerge from.

As far as I know, in the US, you are taxed based on your citizenship and if you don't reside in the US and have no residency there (given that you are not an American Citizen), you should be fine having an account there. The safe bet is to go with a non-interest checking account, then you can write a cheque to yourself in a country where you are at and deposit it at your local bank.

[Drewbert]

>you are taxed based on your citizenship and if you don't reside in the US and have no
>residency there (given that you are not an American Citizen), you should be fine
>having an account there.


Well, I think you're wrong.

If you have a colocated server (as opposed to a leased server) in the USA, you are liable for tax.

If you have someone in the USA building websites for you, you are liable for tax.

It's not just residency that's involved, there's "source of work" as well.

Read https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/topic.py?topic=148 and in particular https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?answer=18372&topic=148

[TrafficDomainer]

Thanks for the link:) The link here actually indicates that "Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party US web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the US from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a US Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute US Activities." Since I really have no business activity in the US, nor do I employ anyone there or live there, I don't believe there should be any tax implication. In my case, when Namedrive sends the money to my paypal account, it is a Canadian Account, I then redirect (ie electronically transfers and deposits the money into my $ US Bank Account). Hence this is just the principle being deposited into the $US account, as long as you incur no interest you should be fine not to worry about any US tax issue.

It's like foreign investers investing in the US stock market, the principal is not taxed but the dividend is, so as long as you deposit the money received from PPC provider like Namedrive into a US cheqing account (again if you are not a US citizen and no active business activities or presence there), you should still be fine. I would immediately draw the funds from the US account and deposit into your country's bank account thereafter. I am just suggesting this strategy to help avoid paying Paypal's hefty conversion fee for FX.

With its many advantages, the disadvatage of being a US Citizen is that you are taxed on your world-wide income regardless of whether or not you live in the US. Non US Citizens do not have to worry about US taxes if they have no presence there.


https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?answer=18372&topic=148

Sincerely :)


>you are taxed based on your citizenship and if you don't reside in the US and have no
>residency there (given that you are not an American Citizen), you should be fine
>having an account there.


Well, I think you're wrong.

If you have a colocated server (as opposed to a leased server) in the USA, you are liable for tax.

If you have someone in the USA building websites for you, you are liable for tax.

It's not just residency that's involved, there's "source of work" as well.

Read https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/topic.py?topic=148 and in particular https://www.google.com/support/adsense/bin/answer.py?answer=18372&topic=148