Indexing Yahoo.co.jp

[Rubber Duck]

Have only been doing this a few days but it does seem to be working.

www.おまとめローン.com comes up in the number one position. As apparently does either the Punycode or the Unicode for the exact Url. This may be why so many US domainers are very keen on Overture with the dot com. If people search that way, you seem to get automatic number one spot on Yahoo!

Well I have the keyword as the title and the description for this one. Exactly as I set the Metatags, and it has only taken two days to show up. The rest of my domains, who knows. I guess typically much longer.

Interesting to note the number of other results that include the exact domain name. Why would that be?

[mulligan]

I have some names that when entered in a search engine inside double quotes show results, sometimes tens of thousands!

[Rubber Duck]

Well, it is interesting to see how many others are using Domain Names they don't own, but some results are going to be domains with your keyword tagged on the end. It, however, goes to show how completely confused the situation is currently in Japan. This will of course not resolve itself until IE 7 comes out, and they all realise that "all your bases are belong to us".

The point about indexing seems to be highly significant. Whilst the punycode can get top slot on a frequent basis without Indexing using URL forwarding, nobody is going to click on something as weird looking a punycode. However, once that punycode becomes Unicode, then there is very good chance that they might.

It may be that instead of just putting the keyword in the Title, we should be using more complexed phrases for both title and descriptions. This is more likely to give a feel good factor.

[Edwin]

That's similar to Google asking you whether you meant to visit the site "おまとめローン.com" - it's just presented in a different way.

What would be magic - but unfortunately not the case - would be if you put in "おまとめローン" (without the .com) and automatically came up #1 :)

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, but interestingly the domains which are are now indexed with keywords both previously belonged to you. One in particular has taken off this month after doing nothing in previous months. Confusingly, however, the traffic and revenue kicked in before I started to mess about with URL forwarding. So it the fact that they are getting indexed properly now something I have done or just an improvement in the way that Yahoo index?

http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07282006131341va5.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07282006131923cr3.jpg

Or perhaps they are indexed because of something you did with them, prior to me getting them?

[alex]

RD, are you using the DomainSite built-in URL forwarding or another method?

I don't have the DomainSite URL forwarding option, so I'm wondering what is the most effective and proper method to get the search engines to index the meta tags on my own server, but redirect human visitors to NameDrive (and avoid blacklisting).

Will this work?

<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="INDEX,NOFOLLOW">
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT=”3; URL=http://www.ndparking.com/domainname.com”>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="title" CONTENT="site title">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="site description">
<META NAME="KeyWords" CONTENT="keyword1, keyword2">
Or

<?php
echo "<META HTTP-EQUIV=\"title\" CONTENT=\"site title\">";
echo "<META HTTP-EQUIV=\"Content-Type\" CONTENT=\"text/html; charset=utf-8\">";
echo "<META NAME=\"Description\" CONTENT=\"site description\">";
echo "<META NAME=\"KeyWords\" CONTENT=\"keyword1, keyword2\">";

header("Location: http://www.ndparking.com/domainname.com") ;

?>
Or something else?

Thanks for you help.

[Rubber Duck]

Alex,

I am a simpleton. I don't have my own servers but I do have URL forwarding at Domainsite.com.

The first one looks similar to the Domainsite.com approach but your guess is as good as mine.

This line looks interesting:

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=utf-8">

Do you think I should include this at Domainsite.com. Obviously, they don't prompt for it?


RD, are you using the DomainSite built-in URL forwarding or another method?

I don't have the DomainSite URL forwarding option, so I'm wondering what is the most effective and proper method to get the search engines to index the meta tags on my own server, but redirect human visitors to NameDrive (and avoid blacklisting).

Will this work?

<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="INDEX,NOFOLLOW">
<META HTTP-EQUIV=Refresh CONTENT=”3; URL=http://www.ndparking.com/domainname.com”>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="title" CONTENT="site title">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="site description">
<META NAME="KeyWords" CONTENT="keyword1, keyword2">
Or

<?php
echo "<META HTTP-EQUIV=\"title\" CONTENT=\"site title\">";
echo "<META HTTP-EQUIV=\"Content-Type\" CONTENT=\"text/html; charset=utf-8\">";
echo "<META NAME=\"Description\" CONTENT=\"site description\">";
echo "<META NAME=\"KeyWords\" CONTENT=\"keyword1, keyword2\">";

header("Location: http://www.ndparking.com/domainname.com") ;

?>
Or something else?

Thanks for you help.

[Edwin]

I did nothing with them except park them at ND using ND's own nameservers.

[Rubber Duck]

I did nothing with them except park them at ND using ND's own nameservers.

Thanks Edwin. Can only conclude that Indexing is down to URL forwarding but has little to do with traffic and revenue to date.

I am not getting any meaningful Page Rank the way I have done it, but Title=Keyword, Description=Keyword is probably not the way to go. I think we need to be a bit more imaginative than that! A few more words might give the impression that it was leading to some meaningful content. Throwing in a few extra keywords might also be worth a go.

I have tried to do a few of the ones with Traffic with a bit more care.

[Olney]

So now by having a term indexed you guys realize why I said it's an important factor.
It's just a beginning Dave I know it's hard to write proper keywords & discriptions in other languages.

Imagine if we did write 6 or 7 keyword & got picked up in a good spot for just 1 or 2.
All we need is to be picked up by 5 uniques a day average on a relevant term for my formula to word.

It's not the best solution but it proves why our Japanese IDNs aren't getting much traffic now.

I've impressed Dave it didn't take long for your domains to be reindexed.


Also Dave you are experiencing what I described here
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/5271-japanese-idn-performance-question.html

When people call their site Something.com & the actual site URL looks nothing remotely like the real domain.

[Rubber Duck]

So now by having a term indexed you guys realize why I said it's an important factor.
It's just a beginning Dave I know it's hard to write proper keywords & discriptions in other languages.

Imagine if we did write 6 or 7 keyword & got picked up in a good spot for just 1 or 2.
All we need is to be picked up by 5 uniques a day average on a relevant term for my formula to word.

It's not the best solution but it proves why our Japanese IDNs aren't getting much traffic now.

I've impressed Dave it didn't take long for your domains to be reindexed.


Also Dave you are experiencing what I described here
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/5271-japanese-idn-performance-question.html

When people call their site Something.com & the actual site URL looks nothing remotely like the real domain.

Early days, we are going to have to take this and see where it flies.

Seems to me that you can set up Mega Tags on Yahoo in such a way that you can immitate a proper site not just a parked domain.

It would also seem to me that some limited Page Rank should be possible according to what you put in.

I have seen one on GOOGLE of FabFives with some Japanese and whole load of content that has been appended in English from the Parking Pages.

格安チケット.net
格安チケット.net. Cheap Flights Flight Deals Cheap Flights To Australia Discounted Tickets Dating Music Downloads. Related Searches. Cheap Flights ...
www.格安チケット.net/

This clearly suggest to me that somehow the thing needs to be set up so that the adverts appear in Japanese so that these can be Spidered to give us good Page Rank based on relevant content.

It must be possible for Google to serve local ads to its own spiders without breaking any rules of engagement. There has to be some neat way of doing this!

[alex]

...I don't have my own servers but I do have URL forwarding at Domainsite.com.

The first one looks similar to the Domainsite.com approach but your guess is as good as mine.

This line looks interesting:

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=utf-8">

Do you think I should include this at Domainsite.com. Obviously, they don't prompt for it?

That probably wouldn't affect the indexing, but I would include it to make sure the title, description and keywords are read correctly (of course, in your example, it seems that they are already being read fine without this tag).


Does anyone else have ideas about constructing a blacklist-safe redirect that functions the same as the DomainSite URL forwarding and will allow Yahoo to grab my meta tags?

[jose]

Oh boy, I knew this day would come, sooner or later.

Before being IDN addicted, I was BH addicted, so I know what I am talking about.

Been there, done that. You’re just starting to “optimize” your land pages and, if you’re like me, you won’t stop till you’re doing Markov Chains and stuff like that.

I just have one single question to you: if you were an end user, would you like to search for おまとめローン and end up at the おまとめローン.com page?

Of course not, right? So, it’s just a mater of time till Google and Yahoo find that also.

PLEASE, PLEASE, don’t go that way!

There are several “tools" available to do Black Hat Seo, that can easily create millions of pages on the fly. You only need a keyword and the scripts will do the rest, including content ripped from the web and mixed up, links, images, etc. Some use complex schemes to change the ripped content so that Google won’t find out it is copied content.

Nevertheless, you decide to go that way. Let me describe what will happen next: if you used the right tools, backed up with some nice auto post blog scripts to collect back links, one day you’ll find your pages like if they had been slashdotted! I mean you reach SERP10 easily, and in our case, with the keyword.com it’s even easier. And the next days, enjoy the ride because you’re AdSense account will explode.

Now comes the drawback: in two weeks your domain is banned AND you’ll loose your AdSense account (some folks are out of relatives to create adsense accounts, lol) and you’ll have to start it all over again.

And the drawback for all IDNers: people will start seeing IDN as spam pages and that’s not good at all.

You can find me at syndk8 I am one the oldest ones, but of course, my nick is not “Jose”.

[Olney]

Sorry Jose
if it's a black hat site you can probably understand why I wouldn't this site in the referals or us having a live link to it.

Also I will very much publicly tell members if I saw anything that was moving into BH techniques.

We are only going as far as trying to get our parking pages indexed in the local language with relevant descriptions.

Development of IDNs is a whole different matter completely.

[Rubber Duck]

For this reason, it would seem to me that Google have a vested interest in only Indexing what is served locally rather than what is served somewhere else. If you take the dopa.com situation, people within China get relevant ads in Chinese, outside you get Gambling Info in English.

There has to be some kind of workaround so that ND and others can present to Googles Spiders what they are presenting to the relevant target audience.

It would seem to me that Google should be able to detect it is a Japanese and then over-ride the Geotargeting. In other words the Geotargeting algorythm comes up with US, but the answer is simply overwiritten with Japan, before the Ads are served.

I think this answer Japan needs to be communicated to the Ad Servers by Namedrive. Perhaps Namedrive can just communicate the setting that the Domain owner enters. Simply put we tell ND or indeed Sedo that information is communicated to the Adservers and this then over-rides the Geotargeting. It sound simple enough assuming Googles cooperation and understanding can be obtained. I cannot see that it can be too difficult impliment ultimately. There may already be such an over-ride mechanism at Google, but nobody is aware of it or knows how to use it.


Sorry Jose
if it's a black hat site you can probably understand why I wouldn't this site in the referals or us having a live link to it.

Also I will very much publicly tell members if I saw anything that was moving into BH techniques.

We are only going as far as trying to get our parking pages indexed in the local language with relevant descriptions.

Development of IDNs is a whole different matter completely.

[alex]

Oh boy, I knew this day will come, sooner or later.

My only goal is to get Japanese pages to show up with their proper titles and reflect the proper language and actual content of the ads on the page.

The search engines claim that they want to accurately index what a human visitor will find when they get to the site. Currently, they're doing a poor job, which results in no title (even though the source of the NameDrive pages has the native language title), no summary of page content and and a nonsense punycode URL.

I'm specifically asking for ways that are within the rules of the parking providers and search engines, which won't result in blacklisting.

Does DomainSite's URL forwarding fall outside those rules?

[Rubber Duck]

My only goal is to get Japanese pages to show up with their proper titles and reflect the proper language and actual content of the ads on the page.

The search engines claim that they want to accurately index what a human visitor will find when they get to the site. Currently, they're doing a poor job, which results in no title (even though the source of the NameDrive pages has the native language title), no summary of page content and and a nonsense punycode URL.

I'm specifically asking for ways that are within the rules of the parking providers and search engines, which won't result in blacklisting.

Does DomainSite's URL forwarding fall outside those rules?

No it seems fair to do what we are currently doing at Domainsite or to emulate it elsewhere.

[jose]

Forgot to say, Google now goes after *all* domains with your whois info and if you have whois private on GoDaddy, forget. GoDaddy 301's don't work also, lol. Best part is that bans seems to last long now, but things may soon change.

[Olney]

Hey guys...

We are not doing anything damaging...
weren't not going down the road of getting banned. I'm trying to offer solutions that WE can implement ourselves till Sedo & NameDrive resolve their problems.

RD even though you are discoving a bit more what is wrong i've been going over this for a while.

I believe both companies are serving Ads by Google.
The best thing is to initially make the companies fully aware of the problem, which I did already.

They still have to go by Google guidelines. We can recommend many things but they need to consult with Google to do this. Most of use are not at the point of consulting with Google about their Domain Adsense program. Google may change the guidelines & might even help but making global corporate decisions is not an overnite task...

It is in ND & Sedo's best interest to resolve the issue & I know they are working on it...

And yes Jose if we do cloaking (ourselves) we will get banned. I would never suggest WE try anything like that.

What we could do is:

1. Domain Forwarding
2. Trying to use keywords that produce ads globally.

[Rubber Duck]

Should we used masked or redirect forwarding. I have been using masked. Is that correct?


Hey guys...

We are not doing anything damaging...
weren't not going down the road of getting banned. I'm trying to offer solutions that WE can implement ourselves till Sedo & NameDrive resolve their problems.

RD even though you are discoving a bit more what is wrong i've been going over this for a while.

I believe both companies are serving Ads by Google.
The best thing is to initially make the companies fully aware of the problem, which I did already.

They still have to go by Google guidelines. We can recommend many things but they need to consult with Google to do this. Most of use are not at the point of consulting with Google about their Domain Adsense program. Google may change the guidelines & might even help but making global corporate decisions is not an overnite task...

It is in ND & Sedo's best interest to resolve the issue & I know they are working on it...

And yes Jose if we do cloaking (ourselves) we will get banned. I would never suggest WE try anything like that.

What we could do is:

1. Domain Forwarding
2. Trying to use keywords that produce ads globally.

[Rubber Duck]

Should we used masked or redirect forwarding. I have been using masked. Is that correct?


Hey guys...

We are not doing anything damaging...
weren't not going down the road of getting banned. I'm trying to offer solutions that WE can implement ourselves till Sedo & NameDrive resolve their problems.

RD even though you are discoving a bit more what is wrong i've been going over this for a while.

I believe both companies are serving Ads by Google.
The best thing is to initially make the companies fully aware of the problem, which I did already.

They still have to go by Google guidelines. We can recommend many things but they need to consult with Google to do this. Most of use are not at the point of consulting with Google about their Domain Adsense program. Google may change the guidelines & might even help but making global corporate decisions is not an overnite task...

It is in ND & Sedo's best interest to resolve the issue & I know they are working on it...

And yes Jose if we do cloaking (ourselves) we will get banned. I would never suggest WE try anything like that.

What we could do is:

1. Domain Forwarding
2. Trying to use keywords that produce ads globally.

[Olney]

Yes I would suggest Masked Forwarding
Redirect shouldn't read your meta tags...

[alex]

Well, I did the obvious and looked at your source to see what DomainSite is doing. It's a basic hidden frame.

As long as this isn't the kind of thing Jose is talking about, I will try this on a few domains on my own server.

<html>
<head>
<title>site title</title>
<META name ="keywords" content="keyword1, keyword2">
<META name ="description" content="description here or more keywords"><meta HTTP-EQUIV="content-type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<frameset border=0 rows="100%,*" noresize>
<frame marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 name="TOPFRAME" src="http://www.ndparking.com/domainname.com"
noresize>
</frameset>
</html>

Honestly, I don't see why NameDrive couldn't add a couple fields for this, unless it is against the terms of their agreement with Google.

[Drewbert]

Googe frowns upon spiders being presented with different content than normal browsers.

They get really upset and blackhole you.

Don't do it.

[Rubber Duck]

Googe frowns upon spiders being presented with different content than normal browsers.

They get really upset and blackhole you.

Don't do it.

Yes, but the problem is that is precisely the effect that their own Geotargeted Adservers create. Target audience Japan, Google Spiders US. Totally different content.

Obviously, it isn't a problem we can resolve on our own, but we are looking for our PPC pages to be given similar treatment to those with a US target audience.

[rhys]

Yes I would suggest Masked Forwarding
Redirect shouldn't read your meta tags...

I thought the whole point was to URL redirect AND to fill out the appropriate meta tags with keywords and descriptions. It sounds like you mean that Masked Forwarding stops the spider from reading the meta tags we write in, doesn't that waste all our effort?

[alex]

Google frowns upon spiders being presented with different content than normal browsers.

So is this a yay or nay on the DomainSite Masked URL frame code I pasted above (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/5447-indexing-yahoo-co-jp-2.html#post36190)? In this case, the end user's browser will see the same title and meta tags that the spider sees.

Jose and Drewbert seem to be saying this is a definite no-no, unless I'm misreading the thread.

So for the cautious among us, I guess the only way to stay safe is to wait for NameDrive to work out a solution with Google and for the search engines to improve their local region crawling? (Or develop our own static single-language sites.)

Or am I way off base here?

[Olney]

Jose & Drewbert are talking about something that we can't easily do ourselves..

Masked Forwarding & Redirect are not something that will get us banned on Google. I gave a suggestion that we can do ourselves.

The issue of redirecting IPs of the parking pages to Japanese content is something I suggested to NameDrive & Sedo. This is something only THEY can do with consultation with Google. Us discussing this won't affect anything because it's a really technical issue that has to be done within Google's guidelines. They will work it out.


So the point is Alex, yes waiting is good if you want. Those with larger portfolios might want to try to get their domains indexed to start making some revenue.

Also Rhys the redirected domain from DomainSite since it's instantly redirected the bots may not read the data (meta tags). But you might want to test it.

I'm going with Masked Forwarding though.

[Rubber Duck]

Thanks Olney, your a star!

[alex]

Jose & Drewbert are talking about something that we can't easily do ourselves.

Ok, my mistake. Thanks for clarifying. Time to get to work...

[Rubber Duck]

Just came across something weird with Yahoo.com.

If you search

વ્યાવસાયિક (Gujarati)

Yahoo produces a result that does contain this word, just the punycode

7. http://www.xn--0dc5cawbs4bck7k.com/
www.xn--0dc5cawbs4bck7k.com - More from this site - Save

Of course the word is in the title of the parking page so that must have been logged or the punycode must have been translated by the Spider. What do think?

[rhys]

Also Rhys the redirected domain from DomainSite since it's instantly redirected the bots may not read the data (meta tags). But you might want to test it.

I'm going with Masked Forwarding though.

OK I just want to understand because I'm estimating it will take me about 50 hours of pretty dull work to change all my nameservers back and set URL forwarding to namedrive instead and optimize metatags.

1. If URL forwarding gets instantly redirected and fails to pick up the meta tags what possible advantage is there in URL forwarding over simply having the name servers pointing to namedrive? I thought the whole premise of the argument was that URL forwarding allows for spiders to read the metatags prior to forwarding allowing us more control over how are names are indexed than if we direct via name servers.

2. If URL forwarding gets instantly redirected and fails to pick up the meta tags why on earth would domainsite provide a metatag interface in the URL forwarding user interface panel?

[Rubber Duck]

OK I just want to understand because I'm estimating it will take me about 50 hours of pretty dull work to change all my nameservers back and set URL forwarding to namedrive instead and optimize metatags.

1. If URL forwarding gets instantly redirected and fails to pick up the meta tags what possible advantage is there in URL forwarding over simply having the name servers pointing to namedrive? I thought the whole premise of the argument was that URL forwarding allows for spiders to read the metatags prior to forwarding allowing us more control over how are names are indexed than if we direct via name servers.

2. If URL forwarding gets instantly redirected and fails to pick up the meta tags why on earth would domainsite provide a metatag interface in the URL forwarding user interface panel?

Yes, these questions had me concerned as well.

It would seem that the Masked forwarding option definitely allows the Meta Tags to be picked up. This option will also allow your Parking to Display and be spidered for the Domain you actually own rather than the redirect URL, which basically reduces your parking page to subdirectory status. Much of all this may actually be transparent to the Spiders, so it may be largely irrelevant, but as you say if you are going to spend a lot of time rolling something out, then you want to be sure it will work.

[Olney]

I am also suggesting testing out what works best for you.
Because we don't know the timeframe Sedo & NameDrive will fix the problem.
You'll have to go back & change them again.

[Rubber Duck]

Olney,

Experience to date suggest that it only takes a week or two to update Title and Descriptions (probably Keywords as well). It is, however, noticeable that many sites are not indexed at all.

It would seem to me that there are two things going on at Yahoo. Initial indexing which takes like four months or more and updating which is comparatively rapid, which is actually very good news. What is your view on this?

[alex]

Well, a handful of domains that I switched over to the Domainsite Masked URL template (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/5447-indexing-yahoo-co-jp-2.html#post36190) last week are now properly indexed on Yahoo, with the correct Japanese title and Japanese summary. The names also do show up in a "Japanese language only" limited search.

Previously these names were just punycode titles, no page summary and did not show up in a Japanese only search.

[Rubber Duck]

My only goal is to get Japanese pages to show up with their proper titles and reflect the proper language and actual content of the ads on the page.

The search engines claim that they want to accurately index what a human visitor will find when they get to the site. Currently, they're doing a poor job, which results in no title (even though the source of the NameDrive pages has the native language title), no summary of page content and and a nonsense punycode URL.

I'm specifically asking for ways that are within the rules of the parking providers and search engines, which won't result in blacklisting.

Does DomainSite's URL forwarding fall outside those rules?

Top ties in with parallel thread at:

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/5618-has-anyone-done-a-web-server-log-analysis-for-idns.html

It seems at though Spiders update SE Indexing about once a week or so. The problem is that they only do this to domains that are already logged by the Spiders. It would seem that to everything logged we need to list all our domains on sites that are already logged. Mulligan seems as though he is going to get us all sorted out this one. Or perhaps you have already done that if you have your own host.

[alex]

It seems at though Spiders update SE Indexing about once a week or so. The problem is that they only do this to domains that are already logged by the Spiders. It would seem that to everything logged we need to list all our domains on sites that are already logged. Mulligan seems as though he is going to get us all sorted out this one. Or perhaps you have already done that if you have your own host.

Thanks for pointing that out. I have been following that thread too. That's next on my list for the names that haven't already been indexed.

I wasn't sure if making a backlink page was against the NameDrive TOS, but from the discussion in other threads it sounds like one backlink for indexing purposes is not a problem.

[seamo]

Though a lot of what you guys are talking about goes over my head, I thought I'd just throw this in here.

I submitted all of my .jp domains to Yahoo.com for possible indexing about 2 months ago.

I just did a check of a few, and strangely my Ascii.jp domains have been indexed.

If you search for tvip.jp, cd-rw.jp and dvd-rw.jp without quotations they all come up #1.

The other odd thing is my tvip title is Team V.i.P...I'm not sure why. Any ideas?

Update - I just checked all of my .jp's and my some.com's and these are #1 as well

電話会社.jp (telephone company)
携帯電話会社.jp (portable telephone company)
金貸し.com (money lender)

They display the punycode for the site title though?