Any quicker way to "development".

[touchring]

Now that we know search engines play an important part for Asian idns since direct navigation is low (e.g. Japanese, Korean, etc), i am wondering if there is a quicker way to "development".

I remembered reading an article on DNjournal about "mini-website style" parking pages as opposed to 1 page parking pages.

Does anyone have experience in those and if any support idns? Any old hand care to share your experience?

[IDNCowboy]

Now that we know search engines play an important part for Asian idns since direct navigation is low (e.g. Japanese, Korean, etc), i am wondering if there is a quicker way to "development".

I remembered reading an article on DNjournal about "mini-website style" parking pages as opposed to 1 page parking pages.

Does anyone have experience in those and if any support idns? Any old hand care to share your experience?
Pull out a page of international wikipedia and paste the page on the domain. Put google adwords on the side so it matches the content. It is allowed and might be a good way to draw traffic.

[OldIDNer]

Just make some simple sites. Add a little original content, get adsense up, do basic seo and build links.

[555]

I personally do not recommand pasting wiki info or other content that is in another site as it is duplicate content and you can get penalized for it by google (you might not be penalized..but even if u wont, u wont score high)

However, you can take an article and change / play with the words a little..minimal changes and this way you are safe with google (obviously hard to do in foreign languages we dont speak..but translators arent costly via elance i.e)
- For those who dont know, dont auto translate from babel fish as u will get a completly wrong translation


I am now working on a CMS (content managment system) template that allows you to add pages/content...change title..tags etc...
change google/yahoo adsense code etc...
change images...and the template is as "changable" as possible
(it will also turn php to html which imo still is better seo wise)

This is like a in between solution...

it isnt a 1 parked page...(it will avg 20-30 pages..but can always add)
and it isnt a fully developed site...

if done right..those templates can get very nice placement in the serp's.

As most here would never have time to go and fully develop half of the domains owned this is the best solution imo (u also elliminate the parking service provider=more $ per click)

[touchring]

I personally do not recommand pasting wiki info or other content that is in another site as it is duplicate content and you can get penalized for it by google (you might not be penalized..but even if u wont, u wont score high)

However, you can take an article and change / play with the words a little..minimal changes and this way you are safe with google (obviously hard to do in foreign languages we dont speak..but translators arent costly via elance i.e)
- For those who dont know, dont auto translate from babel fish as u will get a completly wrong translation


I am now working on a CMS (content managment system) template that allows you to add pages/content...change title..tags etc...
change google/yahoo adsense code etc...
change images...and the template is as "changable" as possible
(it will also turn php to html which imo still is better seo wise)

This is like a in between solution...

it isnt a 1 parked page...(it will avg 20-30 pages..but can always add)
and it isnt a fully developed site...

if done right..those templates can get very nice placement in the serp's.

As most here would never have time to go and fully develop half of the domains owned this is the best solution imo (u also elliminate the parking service provider=more $ per click)


Well, i think time is an issue, so if there's an outsourced solution, i rather go for that.

[bwhhisc]

Can you get Adsense type ads served up for most languages to go with the sites?

[touchring]

Pull out a page of international wikipedia and paste the page on the domain. Put google adwords on the side so it matches the content. It is allowed and might be a good way to draw traffic.


Btw, has anyone tried this method? How's the PPC and CTR like? Any risk of blacklist?

[IDNCowboy]

I personally do not recommand pasting wiki info or other content that is in another site as it is duplicate content and you can get penalized for it by google (you might not be penalized..but even if u wont, u wont score high)

However, you can take an article and change / play with the words a little..minimal changes and this way you are safe with google (obviously hard to do in foreign languages we dont speak..but translators arent costly via elance i.e)
- For those who dont know, dont auto translate from babel fish as u will get a completly wrong translation


I am now working on a CMS (content managment system) template that allows you to add pages/content...change title..tags etc...
change google/yahoo adsense code etc...
change images...and the template is as "changable" as possible
(it will also turn php to html which imo still is better seo wise)

This is like a in between solution...

it isnt a 1 parked page...(it will avg 20-30 pages..but can always add)
and it isnt a fully developed site...

if done right..those templates can get very nice placement in the serp's.

As most here would never have time to go and fully develop half of the domains owned this is the best solution imo (u also elliminate the parking service provider=more $ per click)
Thousands of news sites post the same "articles"

Plus I know some domain owners who use wiki pages as landing and they make some nice money.

[OldIDNer]

be careful with duplicate content type sites - especially since we may be using nice generic domains or top premium domains - names that one may wish to resell one day based on their genericness - dont damage the goods

true, many do use the same articles, but they often blend it in with other unique content

people used to use dmoz content and it worked well at one time

what works today may be deadly tomorrow

careful is all I will say

[touchring]

Thousands of news sites post the same "articles"

Plus I know some domain owners who use wiki pages as landing and they make some nice money.


Ok, blacklist might be far fetched, unless there is hidden text, etc, but i believe you are aware that Google is practices "Smart pricing" - it is possible for a website to earn 5 times more than another site showing the same ads based on how Google values a site.

[IDNCowboy]

Ok, blacklist might be far fetched, unless there is hidden text, etc, but i believe you are aware that Google is practices "Smart pricing" - it is possible for a website to earn 5 times more than another site showing the same ads based on how Google values a site.
There are other considerations too considering how important Google considers your content.

ie: link farm too will get you no further.

[touchring]

There are other considerations too considering how important Google considers your content.

ie: link farm too will get you no further.


Yes, thanks. How about: has anyone tried this method for Japanese names? How's the PPC and CTR like?

[555]

bwhisc:
Can you get Adsense type ads served up for most languages to go with the sites?
You have no control over the served ads, google determines them based on
content language and availability of advertisers etc...


Jeff: I know some domain owners who use wiki pages as landing and they make some nice money.

And would make considerably more if would use unique content (there are other factors obviously but google loves unique content..even more if it changes /added frequently

[touchring]

Yes, but unique content is really time consuming to create.

Time can be an expensive commodity. I seem to think that buying built site with content is less time consuming than creating content from scratch.

But of cos, there's always a hobby factor, in which people derive pleasure from creating unique sites.

[555]

All depends how you see it :) ...its another advantage of idn's...as when u take content in english and have someone translate for you...it will never be considered duplicate content and the foreign language translators can be found cheap (for many languages)

[touchring]

All depends how you see it :) ...its another advantage of idn's...as when u take content in english and have someone translate for you...it will never be considered duplicate content and the foreign language translators can be found cheap (for many languages)


Yes, using freelancers is one method, but rather than translate, maybe modify the wikipedia article will be more economical. But there still remains the issue of how smart Google will become in detecting modification. A google blacklisted name is almost a goner.

[555]

well..i dont underestimate google but i think u r safe when a human translates i.e wiki or any other article to another language

[thefabfive]

I'm no SEO expert but I'm pretty sure duplicate content will not get you banned or blacklisted. You may not rank as high as with original content, but at least you'll rank.

I would guess that if the content were to change at some point and Google re-crawls the page your ranking can recover.

[touchring]

well..i dont underestimate google but i think u r safe when a human translates i.e wiki or any other article to another language


Hehe, i realized this as well, they seem to be very good at detecting "good websites" now - this will now affect smart pricing. Another way is to create mini-directories. This works for commercial terms.

[555]

No doubt that manually is best (well when u know what u r doing...) but since its not reasonable to excpect anyone to do it manually for all they're domains and do it somehow right...thats why i chose the cms template...just to give u an idea look at womantowoman.com (its a dnforum ppc template and apperantly it improved ctr alot for who is using it)

they sell them with content but only english/ascii as of now i believe

[IDNCowboy]

very cool

[Edwin]

You might get a better return by focusing more effort/resources on a handful of names and producing something decent on them rather than going for the "mile wide, inch deep" approach across all domains.

[seamo]

I am now working on a CMS (content managment system) template that allows you to add pages/content...change title..tags etc...
change google/yahoo adsense code etc...
change images...and the template is as "changable" as possible
(it will also turn php to html which imo still is better seo wise)

I261275 - is this the link to the site?

http://www.opensourcecms.com/

Would you reccommend this site for a newbie?

[domainguru]

The big question for me in all this is how much Google will pay you directly for Adsense clicks on mini-websites, compared with how much parkers like NameDrive pay out?

Is it typically a big difference? Obviously parking companies take their cut (typically 50%), but is that the only difference? For example, do Google themselves pay parking companies less for clicks than they pay website owners?

[touchring]

Is it typically a big difference? Obviously parking companies take their cut (typically 50%), but is that the only difference? For example, do Google themselves pay parking companies less for clicks than they pay website owners?


Yes, that's why i asked - How about: has anyone tried this method for Japanese names? How's the PPC and CTR like?

Edwin's proposal to develop for a just few domain makes sense for higher traffic names if parking companies do take a big slice off.

[domainguru]

Even an answer for ASCII domains would be useful as a starting point - surely someone here has done the necessary work to convert a parked domain to a one-page adsense site? Anyone care to share the results?

[chaumi]

The big question for me in all this is how much Google will pay you directly for Adsense clicks on mini-websites, compared with how much parkers like NameDrive pay out?

Is it typically a big difference? Obviously parking companies take their cut (typically 50%), but is that the only difference? For example, do Google themselves pay parking companies less for clicks than they pay website owners?

Why would you want to give away half when there's an opportunity to pull it all yourself? Remember affiliate income as well, not sure how well this is developed in different countries, but it surely? will come to those where not in use already.
This can considerably raise income...eg Sedo click income on one of my .de poker names was sitting at about €50 per month....when I managed to get a working site on it rose to $xxxx from affiliate income with same traffic level. OK, poker's a high payer, but you can see the point!

[Rubber Duck]

I am not interest in trying to get an 80% cut until I am getting 50% of something meaningful!

[chaumi]

I am not interest in trying to get an 80% cut until I am getting 50% of something meaningful!

Point taken, but we know the potential's there. No harm in trying to find a balance to the short and long term view, and set up to win either way?

[domainguru]

Why would you want to give away half when there's an opportunity to pull it all yourself? Remember affiliate income as well, not sure how well this is developed in different countries, but it surely? will come to those where not in use already.
This can considerably raise income...eg Sedo click income on one of my .de poker names was sitting at about €50 per month....when I managed to get a working site on it rose to $xxxx from affiliate income with same traffic level. OK, poker's a high payer, but you can see the point!

Because I own close to 1000 IDNs, plus ASCII ones. I have developed web sites for years, and I know how much blood, sweat, and tears they produce. And the tears often come from dealing with companies supposed to be paying out "lifetime affiliate income"

Poker is an exception. There are very clear and easy ways to generate income from poker names. Most names are much messier, and for many IDNs, there is no obvious affiliate path.

So the question remains the same - how much more do Adsense clicks produce than parking clicks?

[Wot]

Even an answer for ASCII domains would be useful as a starting point - surely someone here has done the necessary work to convert a parked domain to a one-page adsense site? Anyone care to share the results?


www.gov.co.in (20,000+ uniques per month) - switched from parking at Sedo to the mini site - very little difference in income.

www.orientthai.com (4,000 + per month)same switch - same result

www.nee.com (4000+ per month) - same result

So from my experience- very little difference.

[Edwin]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges?

It's pointless to compare the click values of parking vs developing a "real" site (substantial useful, in-depth content, incoming links, etc) since the latter could easily have 10x, 100x, 1000x or more the traffic of the former.

MySpace.com probably got about 1-2 typeins a month when it was still just a domain - now it gets hundreds of millions of visitors a month as a developed site. Do you think the owners are sitting around wondering if their per-click on ads is lower than they would have got by parking the domain all those years ago?

Perhaps it's because there's typically little overlap between the "domainer" and "developer" webmaster communities, but it's amazing how many people stay fixated on the per-click ball whereas the real name of the game is traffic, buckets and buckets of it - and how to get it!

Yes, parking ONE domain requires no effort, whereas developing a site could take weeks of hard work - but when you add up ALL the hours you spend chasing, registering, parking, buying and selling domains, you'll see that equation is deceptive as there is a lot of work involved on both sides of the equation - it's just that in domaining, the work comes in bite-sized helpings.

[Rubber Duck]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges?

It's pointless to compare the click values of parking vs developing a "real" site (substantial useful, in-depth content, incoming links, etc) since the latter could easily have 10x, 100x, 1000x or more the traffic of the former.

MySpace.com probably got about 1-2 typeins a month when it was still just a domain - now it gets hundreds of millions of visitors a month as a developed site. Do you think the owners are sitting around wondering if their per-click on ads is lower than they would have got by parking the domain all those years ago?

Perhaps it's because there's typically little overlap between the "domainer" and "developer" webmaster communities, but it's amazing how many people stay fixated on the per-click ball whereas the real name of the game is traffic, buckets and buckets of it - and how to get it!

Totally agree with you. But the kind of development that really works takes not only inspiration and know how, but also a lot of back breaking slog. You need to crack the viral marketing thing. You need to excite people sufficiently for them to return time and time again and tell their friends about it. A bit like this forum, but even this isn't a star shot in terms of what is possible with a site with wider public appeal.

The problem is that in many instance you will need to appeal to the teenagers of a different culture in a different language. I struggle to relate to my own son about what he wants to do and what he is having for tea.

[domainguru]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges?

It's pointless to compare the click values of parking vs developing a "real" site (substantial useful, in-depth content, incoming links, etc) since the latter could easily have 10x, 100x, 1000x or more the traffic of the former.

MySpace.com probably got about 1-2 typeins a month when it was still just a domain - now it gets hundreds of millions of visitors a month as a developed site. Do you think the owners are sitting around wondering if their per-click on ads is lower than they would have got by parking the domain all those years ago?

Perhaps it's because there's typically little overlap between the "domainer" and "developer" webmaster communities, but it's amazing how many people stay fixated on the per-click ball whereas the real name of the game is traffic, buckets and buckets of it - and how to get it!

Yes, parking ONE domain requires no effort, whereas developing a site could take weeks of hard work - but when you add up ALL the hours you spend chasing, registering, parking, buying and selling domains, you'll see that equation is deceptive as there is a lot of work involved on both sides of the equation - it's just that in domaining, the work comes in bite-sized helpings.

I fully understand the potential differences between "real" sites and parked pages. Like you, I am both a domainer and a developer. With real sites, the amount of traffic / income is largely down to your ingenuity, skill sets, investment of time and money.

All I was trying to find out was how the click income compared if you deal directly with Adsense, compared with going through a parking company. Sounds like a reasonable question to me, especially if you are thinking of develop a very simple mini-site.

[Rubber Duck]

It is a very pertinent question and one many us need to know the answer to.

[Edwin]

The problem is that in many instance you will need to appeal to the teenagers of a different culture in a different language. I struggle to relate to my own son about what he wants to do and what he is having for tea.

MySpace was just an extreme example to illustrate typein vs developed traffic. Should be possible to get hundreds or thousands of visitors a day (or more - some of my sites get more) to a decent site on just about any topic, if the niche is planned and mapped out in advance and the content is developed carefully.

[touchring]

I fully understand the potential differences between "real" sites and parked pages. Like you, I am both a domainer and a developer. With real sites, the amount of traffic / income is largely down to your ingenuity, skill sets, investment of time and money.

All I was trying to find out was how the click income compared if you deal directly with Adsense, compared with going through a parking company. Sounds like a reasonable question to me, especially if you are thinking of develop a very simple mini-site.


Yes, the sorts of of that womantowoman.com adsense site example given just a while ago.

[chaumi]

QUOTE= It's pointless to compare the click values of parking vs developing a "real" site (substantial useful, in-depth content, incoming links, etc) since the latter could easily have 10x, 100x, 1000x or more the traffic of the former.

QUOTE=Totally agree with you. But the kind of development that really works takes not only inspiration and know how, but also a lot of back breaking slog. You need to crack the viral marketing thing. You need to excite people sufficiently for them to return time and time again and tell their friends about it.

QUOTE=With real sites, the amount of traffic / income is largely down to your ingenuity, skill sets, investment of time and money.

All points spot on, and there's clearly a need to look at this from different perspectives.

1.There has to be a simple solution for the domainer with up to 1000+ names, for whom it's impossible to develop effectively. Time is limited, and the effort that goes into only one can be exhaustive.

2. Based on everything we know now, as Edwin spelled out, content rich, 'clever'
development has a stong chance of gaining exponential income growth, and an ultimate satisfying sale value.

Looking at 1. If you only concentrate on this, you are almost certainly missing out on potential, although the development in 2 has to be 'clever' to beat the market, or more to the point you have to search for/have access to multiple resources.


So, how do you develop to the level required for success, when we're all short of time/have too many domains/other things need attention/have to work as well/don't have the necessary knowledge in all areas....etc

One answer may be in a 'collective' approach, and I need to use an example at very high level.....

Take an ASCII top level genre. Examples travel, entertainment, fashion, electronics etc. ASCII is chosen in this example to create potential for truly global market, though of course a generic IDN would work as well for a narrower market. The high level genre approach is best to make the widest possible number of associations with its sub levels.

Pull together a team to build a content rich ASCII site on a strong domain. Shared approach, content building, ideas, development, costs, income.

Once the site is up and running, continue focus to build traffic, while simultaneously turning attention to IDN element of site. Either building content rich local script pages by translating from the already prepared ASCII content, and/or using links to developed IDN standalone sites.

Using travel as an example, here's one of mine...vrtravelguide.com. Imagine a front page with links to ASCII continent/city sub pages, articles, advertising etc, and other links to individual language/script pages, each of which is a mirror of the main site page in the local script.
The owner of Bangalore.com in Hindi either has a link to the developed site from the Hindi page, or forwards traffic to the Hindi/Bangalore sub page of the main site, and subsequently collects any income from that page.


Advantages:

Shared interest in top level development, using collective skillsets, overcomes the time/knowledge/money/support restrictions

Potential to build strong visitor levels, valuable shared and individual income

Ability to keep traffic/income for strong IDNs benefitting the individual owner, while also giving the opportunity for some traffic to spill into the rest of the site

Links to individual IDNs tied into the content, and maybe relevant ASCIIs, ensuring indexing (assuming the main site is indexed).

Individual owners still keep their IDNs, type in traffic goes straight to the relevant page. Stats available for future sales support.


Disadvantages:


If type in traffic is sent to the sub page of the main site, the IDN itself doesn't get an opportunity to get indexed in it's own right. Needs some considered choice of which IDNs to develop as standalone, and which to use main site linking to.


Others?

[Edwin]

From experience, collective projects always start positively but usually founder in a hailstorm of recriminations. You see, no two people EVER bring exactly the same skills to the project or put in the same effort - at least, not the way they perceive it. For-profit projects are even worse - the beauty of a dmoz, wikipedia, wikitravel etc. is that it doesn't matter how much or how little any one participant does, since they're not doing it for money anyway...

If you're going to go for joint projects at all, work with 1-2 other people you can REALLY trust and push EACH OTHER so that you can individually achieve more than you would have done without the external impetus.

Failing that, it's perfectly possible - given enough time and resources - to teach yourself everything you need to make a successful website. Thousands of people already have, after all.

[Rubber Duck]

To get some idea of what a complete outsider with no previous experience can achieve on their own with a simple application like Front Page within a few hours of opening the package, take a look at this.

Search Google on for the following Keywords:

bridge Inspection

paint Inspection

principal Inspections

bridge assessment

Click on the first dot Biz you come to!

I did this myself and did all the SEO work without really knowing much about it at all. The site has been a success as a site but not really much use as business. The target niche didn't really exist in the way that I had envisaged. Nevertheless, it does show how somebody from outside the Development, SEO and even domaining community can get started fairly easily without any knowledge of HTML or any of the other scripts. I got into domaining trying to get the dot com for my site after realising that Principalinspections.com was not a good domain, because people did not search for that. This is how I got into domaining in the first place. This was done on my own before I even joined a forum. Development is not beyond the Wit of man, but it is hard work!

PS I am not trying to detract from the more sophisticated work of those that know what they are doing!

[alex]

I don't see any shortcuts to true quality development. I am trying to automate as much as I can, but at this stage I am mostly interested in testing to see the difference between between parking service revenue and my own minimally developed parking mini-sites. Those results will determine whether I leave most of my names on parking services or put more time into moving them to mini-sites.

Either way, the long term plan is to pull more and more select names from the parked pool and build quality sites on them. The end goals being to establish sites that allow me to move higher up the percentage ladder by establishing closer ties will sellers or service providers and inking lucrative direct contracts with advertisers rather than settling for a percent of a percent with intermediate advertising services. This won't be quick, cheap or easy, but hopefully early parking and smaller developed site revenues will help pay for more ambitious development.


I recently saw Chris Chena's name mentioned on another site. His story is interesting in that he got into the game relatively recently and is highly focused on a small number a quality sites rather than a large number of cookie cutter sites. He is an advocate of the value of the developing the broadest generics possible. He is also one of NameDrive's seed investors.

DN Journal Interview (http://www.dnjournal.com/columns/cover070405.htm)
Domaining Blog Q&A (http://www.domainingblog.com/2006/02/qa-with-one-of-worlds-most-prolific.html)

[TrafficDomainer]

I can offer my translation service in English - Thai if anyone is interested. Feel free to PM me to discuss further.


I personally do not recommand pasting wiki info or other content that is in another site as it is duplicate content and you can get penalized for it by google (you might not be penalized..but even if u wont, u wont score high)

However, you can take an article and change / play with the words a little..minimal changes and this way you are safe with google (obviously hard to do in foreign languages we dont speak..but translators arent costly via elance i.e)
- For those who dont know, dont auto translate from babel fish as u will get a completly wrong translation


I am now working on a CMS (content managment system) template that allows you to add pages/content...change title..tags etc...
change google/yahoo adsense code etc...
change images...and the template is as "changable" as possible
(it will also turn php to html which imo still is better seo wise)

This is like a in between solution...

it isnt a 1 parked page...(it will avg 20-30 pages..but can always add)
and it isnt a fully developed site...

if done right..those templates can get very nice placement in the serp's.

As most here would never have time to go and fully develop half of the domains owned this is the best solution imo (u also elliminate the parking service provider=more $ per click)

[Olney]

I think if one thinks about it there are plenty of ways to develop.

I don't think most of us can actively search for new reg's & spending thinking time to efficiently develop.

I stopped regging to concentrate on development. I think those buying on the afttermarket it's a bit easy but doing research on regs is harder.
This is really for those who already have a large portfolio.

I choose to put my domains in groups & think about the types of sites that could be made from them. I choose to concentrate on domains with commercial value from the beginning.

So for example I have over 60 to 80 loan & finance related jps, coms, & nets
They can all get the exact same design with different content better yet they can all be interlinked together too.

I have about 10 to 20 Affiliate Domains
Same design, change content a little interlink them
Sign up with affiliate programs

Probably about 200 travel related Domains
Each these can be one page interlinked together
All of these are Hotel, Accomodation, Tours, Ryokans

Then I have about 10 to 20 domains that I needed someone to program a script for me.

It really depends on how you went about registrations. I could keep registering domains of words that I find but now my focus is to produce a profit with my 600 IDNs. The concept words & nonCommercial domains for me are harder to develop. Almost all of the domains I have I tried to match with an advertisement.

So to sum it up... Group your best commercial domains together. Then see which of those could be developed sharing the same kind of design or script. Get it done yourself or find a developer.

[thegenius1]

I think if one thinks about it there are plenty of ways to develop.

I don't think most of us can actively search for new reg's & spending thinking time to efficiently develop.

I stopped regging to concentrate on development. I think those buying on the afttermarket it's a bit easy but doing research on regs is harder.
This is really for those who already have a large portfolio.

I choose to put my domains in groups & think about the types of sites that could be made from them. I choose to concentrate on domains with commercial value from the beginning.

So for example I have over 60 to 80 loan & finance related jps, coms, & nets
They can all get the exact same design with different content better yet they can all be interlinked together too.

I have about 10 to 20 Affiliate Domains
Same design, change content a little interlink them
Sign up with affiliate programs

Probably about 200 travel related Domains
Each these can be one page interlinked together
All of these are Hotel, Accomodation, Tours, Ryokans

Then I have about 10 to 20 domains that I needed someone to program a script for me.

It really depends on how you went about registrations. I could keep registering domains of words that I find but now my focus is to produce a profit with my 600 IDNs. The concept words & nonCommercial domains for me are harder to develop. Almost all of the domains I have I tried to match with an advertisement.

So to sum it up... Group your best commercial domains together. Then see which of those could be developed sharing the same kind of design or script. Get it done yourself or find a developer.

Brilliant concept we are currently trying to follow in these footsteps , the theme Reg's really are a benifit when it comes to the same layout but just altering the content to make it relevant to that particular domain. I sat back watched your moves and tried to keep up.

[Rubber Duck]

You might get a better return by focusing more effort/resources on a handful of names and producing something decent on them rather than going for the "mile wide, inch deep" approach across all domains.

Picking up on this point of Edwin's, this means that getting hold a small core of really excellent domains to develop later should be a fundamental part of any portfolio strategy.

Why break you back developing something that is about as likely to fly as the average house brick?

[touchring]

The big question for me in all this is how much Google will pay you directly for Adsense clicks on mini-websites, compared with how much parkers like NameDrive pay out?

Is it typically a big difference? Obviously parking companies take their cut (typically 50%), but is that the only difference? For example, do Google themselves pay parking companies less for clicks than they pay website owners?


I've given quite a thought on the strategy ahead, and my conclusion is that the best strategy will be to create a 'quicky' HTML mini-website with keyword optimized "subpages" crosslinked, not dissimilar to the templates Adam is selling at DNF, but with more relevant 'text'.

Reasons as follows:

1. As what guru said, parking sites will soon drop off google index, it's only a sooner or later thing. Dropping off is not a pleasant thought, especially when you do not know whether the domain is blacklisted for the long-term. Try searching sex.net, this is blacklisted by Google. Will this domain ever get indexed by Google again?

2. So what we need to create is a Adsense centric replacement to "high CTR" parking sites. The main strategy is to get indexed or included by search engines, but not to have 100x or 1000x traffic - for that sort, the effort is enormous and there is no need at all to use a generic domain. Even thisistheonlydomainicanthinkof.com will suffice.

3. Since we got hundreds of domains we would want to milk, the mini-site has to be easy and fast to create - i've thought of creating a program that can generate such a mini-site automatically.

4. We can further optimize the mini-site by changing the text into something more custom or relevant - freelancers can be hired for this purpose - this is stage 2 or 3, just in case Google becomes more "human" and can "read". :p

Now, the problem - coming out with the relevant text in a foreign language. The only thing i can think of now is using Wikipedia articles, but that might not be detailed enough for subpages.

This being a serious topic that will affect everyone of us, please reply with clear thoughts. Try not to reply for the sake of replying.

[thegenius1]

IDNtemplates.com is looking into something that would benefit most of the members here , we should be making a annoucement in the coming weeks if all goes well.

Also i think this thread should make it way to the member section

[jose]

Here we go again.. instead of talking about duplicate content, how about duplicate idnforums thread?

[555]

My PPC Templates are pretty much done and ready.
Please view a sample on www.ppctip.com/demo
And if you want to see more of the admin and ease of use you can go to:
http://www.ppctip.com/demo/admin.php
UN:super
PW:demo

Pretty much everything can be changed..i.e images,content,sections,title,descriptions,keywords etc etc...

Comments and questions are welcome.

Thanks,
Michael.

[jose]

Why are you comparing apples and oranges?

It's pointless to compare the click values of parking vs developing a "real" site (substantial useful, in-depth content, incoming links, etc) since the latter could easily have 10x, 100x, 1000x or more the traffic of the former.

MySpace.com probably got about 1-2 typeins a month when it was still just a domain - now it gets hundreds of millions of visitors a month as a developed site. Do you think the owners are sitting around wondering if their per-click on ads is lower than they would have got by parking the domain all those years ago?

Perhaps it's because there's typically little overlap between the "domainer" and "developer" webmaster communities, but it's amazing how many people stay fixated on the per-click ball whereas the real name of the game is traffic, buckets and buckets of it - and how to get it!

Yes, parking ONE domain requires no effort, whereas developing a site could take weeks of hard work - but when you add up ALL the hours you spend chasing, registering, parking, buying and selling domains, you'll see that equation is deceptive as there is a lot of work involved on both sides of the equation - it's just that in domaining, the work comes in bite-sized helpings.

Edwin: this is one of your best posts ever. Please mark it as a future reference for all future discussions on this subject. There's only two ways:

1. NO WORK: Parked pages = adsense minisites = Low Revenue.

2. HARD WORK: Have a good idea, develop, promote, invest on a domain = High Revenue

[touchring]

Edwin: this is one of your best posts ever. Please mark it as a future reference for all future discussions on this subject. There's only two ways:

1. NO WORK: Either parked pages or adsense minisites = Low Revenue.

2. HARD WORK: Have a good idea, develop, promote, invest on a domain = High Revenue



Yes, we all know.

The problem is: Leave a domain in parked status -> get banned by Google sooner or later. See the problem? It's no longer just a revenue problem.

Just because everyone is running off the cliff doesn't mean we have to follow. This has happened before in year 2001, and many here experienced that first hand.

[jose]

Yes, we all know.

The problem is: Leave a domain in parked status -> get banned by Google sooner or later. See the problem? It's no longer just a revenue problem.

Leave them parked. Lot's of reasons. Been there, done that (on ascii). You'll save time and money. Parking is getting better each day, they solve with Google their issues, people don't get content when visiting a parked page and so they keep clicking.

And, don't consult your ND status everyday! Use your time the best you can.

And don't forget the sunscreen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zBr96m_VI)! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zBr96m_VI)


I am talking to myself since I have some nice projects I want to do and keep reading and posting on this forum... where's my procrastination book?!

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, we all know.

The problem is: Leave a domain in parked status -> get banned by Google sooner or later. See the problem? It's no longer just a revenue problem.

Just because everyone is running off the cliff doesn't mean we have to follow. This has happened before in year 2001, and many here experienced that first hand.

Not quite sure where you are coming from here. Google didn't come off Beta until late 1999. In 2000, Google was announcing a partnership with Yahoo and introducing Adwords for the first time. Adwords didn't go PPC until 2002. Adsense wasn't born until 2003.

[Armadillo]

Going with the idea of domains with similar content, resources could be pooled from idnfourms. People could post their websites/pages under a certain content category and others could pick and choose among them to put links to thoe pages on their site and vice versa. Link qulality is very important in seo.

Just a thought.

Armadillo

[touchring]

Not quite sure where you are coming from here. Google didn't come off Beta until late 1999. In 2000, Google was announcing a partnership with Yahoo and introducing Adwords for the first time. Adwords didn't go PPC until 2002. Adsense wasn't born until 2003.


Well, we all know that search engines hate parking pages. For one, i suspect that Google algo actually checks DNS server.

[555]

I didnt get any comments on these yet, not sure why...but these are the best cost effective solution to succesful seo ranking results for our idn's and ascii imo... www.ppctip.com/demo

[touchring]

I didnt get any comments on these yet, not sure why...but these are the best cost effective solution to succesful seo ranking results... www.ppctip.com/demo


I would suggest you take a look at DNF's templates, i gave 2 links above. I suspect they use some Windows html generator that given the keyword categories and articles for each category will instantly generate a 50 page website cross linked. The time involved will be to find the keywords and freeware articles.

[555]

i'm familier with the dnf templates, what is the purpose of the suggestion?

[Rubber Duck]

Ok, blacklist might be far fetched......

Thank goodness for that. I was beginning to think the only sensible course of action was to sell them or reg fee!

[touchring]

i'm familier with the dnf templates, what is the purpose of the suggestion?


Ok, think about it, for $49 to generate 50-100 pages cross linked, they must have used some method that is fast enough. I suspect each site takes no more than an hour to create.

[Rubber Duck]

Well, we all know that search engines hate parking pages. For one, i suspect that Google algo actually checks DNS server.

You did really answer my point. How could there have been a major massacre in 2001 as suggested as when much of the infrastructure we take for granted now didn't actually exist? There basically wasn't any PPC or Adsense Sites back then! It is therefore unlikely that many site would have been banned to prevent exploitation of a non-existent system.

I didnt get any comments on these yet, not sure why...but these are the best cost effective solution to succesful seo ranking results for our idn's and ascii imo... www.ppctip.com/demo

Yes, they looked interesting. Still have the problem of providing original content though.

[touchring]

Thank goodness for that. I was beginning to think the only sensible course of action was to sell them or reg fee!


No joke, some of the parking sites i found are not showing on Google - try http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=site%3Asex.net&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Question is, how google decides which domain to blacklist and if the owner decides to "develop" the site, will it come back to index?

[555]

Ok, think about it, for $49 to generate 50-100 pages cross linked, they must have used some method that is fast enough. I suspect each site takes no more than an hour to create.

Very Possible but not sure, as with the template sample i posted if the content/articles are ready it also should take just around that time or a little more if you do it right using all seo related sections

[555]

Yes, they looked interesting. Still have the problem of providing original content though.

True, Content has no short cuts unfortunately...even though as mentioned before..another huge idn advantage is that if you hire a translator..all they have to do is translate the related subject to the language working on and you have unique content in all means.
where in english you must start playing with moving the words for it to "appear" unique but is not.

[touchring]

Very Possible but not sure, as with the template sample i posted if the content/articles are ready it also should take just around that time or a little more if you do it right using all seo related sections


I'm still trying to check with them if they can do French or Spanish sites, and i might get a few sites done.

At the same time, i'm checking out the possibility of creating or (buying if there is one) a Windows application to generate the cross-linked htmls as they have done, and then hire a native speaker freelancer to generate the sites for me.

If these can't work, i'll just have to hire freelancers to create each site individually - this will definitely cost more.

Right now, i'm weighing the different options.

[555]

The reason i wanna push these templates is...IF it is like i think it is..its a good solid template that will give us good results...

i need to decide if i buy the license from the people who built it or i dont buy it.

thats why it would be great to really discuss what we got there and even if only 4-5 large portfolio holders that want to develop theyre portfolios will join in with it..we can easily buy it and save 1000's each when comparing to other options available to us.
(other options i mean template prices in dnf and other places,full development etc...and when i say 1000's i mean it even after article translations services)

[touchring]

The reason i wanna push these templates is...IF it is like i think it is..its a good solid template that will give us good results...

i need to decide if i buy the license from the people who built it or i dont buy it.

thats why it would be great to really discuss what we got there and even if only 4-5 large portfolio holders that want to develop theyre portfolios will join in with it..we can easily buy it and save 1000's each when comparing to other options available to us.
(other options i mean template prices in dnf and other places,full development etc...and when i say 1000's i mean it even after article translations services)


For "solid template", i think the DNF template format is a good one - with adsense at eye level and maximum click exposure (it's as good as a parking page), and left and bottom menu for all the generated keywords.

The next issue is how to create or find a software that can generate such a site very quickly - the best is just one click of the button after filling up a single page form - the main page article, the keywords, subkeywords, and their respective articles.

As for the articles, we can use wikipedia or some other multi-language reference, and once the earnings start coming in, hire freelancer to repopulate with better articles.

[555]

In this template we can make a list of what we want them to change..even though even now theyre not bad at all..far from it.

another major diffrence..dnf is 50 a piece...so if i wanna put 1000 domains i have to pay them $50,000 or even if they sell at half the price it is still $25k...and many here have more then 1000 domains (not saying its quick or ez to put all on templates but u get the idea)...

with these templates the price to BUY the license is less then that..and allows us to resell...to use unlimited amounts of them for us..etc etc

[touchring]

My initial intention is to develop for my better names (single words), and also generics names with significant PPC. That will reduce the list to dozens.

For the template generator you are proposing to use, have you tried creating one real site? You can gauge the efficiency and the time needed from a test.

[555]

Same here, but you must agree its good you know you have the option to then further develop all your domains...resell templates to other who wont want to put up the initial small investment etc...

(another thing..as you previously mentioned..we dont even know if dnf supports all languages...these do.)

[Explorer]

My initial intention is to develop for my better names (single words), and also generics names with significant PPC. That will reduce the list to dozens.

For the template generator you are proposing to use, have you tried creating one real site? You can gauge the efficiency and the time needed from a test.

How would you select your "better" names? Would you rank them based on current PPC income or total footprint? I am asking because some of my best total footprint names are the worst current PPC earners.

[touchring]

How would you select your "better" names? Would you rank them based on current PPC income or total footprint? I am asking because some of my best total footprint names are the worst current PPC earners.


Well, i will base on either ppc income or "genericness". Even if we are to develop manually, we still need to choose or narrow down the list - that would probably be no more than half a dozen. There's no perfect scenario, we'll just have to 'save' as many names as possible given a limited amount of time and budget. In future, there might be a better content management software designed for parking.

[555]

For the template generator you are proposing to use, have you tried creating one real site? You can gauge the efficiency and the time needed from a test.

Not yet, i will get to it in next few days and not only the test will determine the efficiency..i am very curious to see where it gets ranked after a couple of weeks

[Explorer]

Well, i will base on either ppc income or "genericness". Even if we are to develop manually, we still need to choose or narrow down the list - that would probably be no more than half a dozen. There's no perfect scenario, we'll just have to 'save' as many names as possible given a limited amount of time and budget. In future, there might be a better content management software designed for parking.

It does makes sense. I am just trying to figure out which ones to choose from. Leaning towards high OVT names.

Plus, "development" might be just a glorified mini-site as writing/creating original content in a foreign language is not as simple, at least for me.

[555]

I would try and touch subjects you are closer to, know more of...and still as commercial as possible...it will only ensure you will get higher quality content,custom or not.

[Rubber Duck]

It does makes sense. I am just trying to figure out which ones to choose from. Leaning towards high OVT names.

Plus, "development" might be just a glorified mini-site as writing/creating original content in a foreign language is not as simple, at least for me.

I went the other way. I went high Bid.

[touchring]

It does makes sense. I am just trying to figure out which ones to choose from. Leaning towards high OVT names.

Plus, "development" might be just a glorified mini-site as writing/creating original content in a foreign language is not as simple, at least for me.


Yes, it's not difficult, but some outsourcing to freelancer can make it easier. Copywriting work is cheap, it's creating the "google" friendly website that is a problem. Anyone found any ready solution, better than DNF templates, please feel free to post. :)