Is it possible to buy generic .com with traffic on this forum without paying the sky?

[touchring]

Do you think it's possible to buy generic .coms with traffic on this forum without paying the sky?

[blastfromthepast]

No.

[touchring]

No.


Kekeke... i guess i should have included a No! option.

Yup, it's getting harder -- even Register.com, and probably other registries have started to keep good traffic names for themselves. The opportunity to gather a 150k a mth ND folio like Dilpup's is officially over, at least for now.

I'm now at my wits end on how to continue portfolio building without using a time machine. The amount of effort is getting incredible! It's NNN times harder to register or acquire a money making PPC generic today than it was 3 years ago. :p

[domainguru]

i found the question confusing. Are you talking about ASCII or IDN? It sounds like you are talking about ASCII, but then the question mentions "on this forum", which obviously implies IDN. Please clarify.

[touchring]

i found the question confusing. Are you talking about ASCII or IDN? It sounds like you are talking about ASCII, but then the question mentions "on this forum", which obviously implies IDN. Please clarify.


IDN.

[domainguru]

Kekeke... i guess i should have included a No! option.

Yup, it's getting harder -- even Register.com, and probably other registries have started to keep good traffic names for themselves. The opportunity to gather a 150k a mth ND folio like Dilpup's is officially over, at least for now.

I'm now at my wits end on how to continue portfolio building without using a time machine. The amount of effort is getting incredible! It's NNN times harder to register or acquire a money making PPC generic today than it was 3 years ago. :p

So all this applies to IDNs not ASCII? Sure sounds like ASCII to me ... still confused :p

[OldIDNer]

this poll is missing a hell no option

[blastfromthepast]

Not possible. I suspect most will never go on sale on forums, but will go to end users making sky high offers.

[kenne]

Define "sky"?

IDN multiplier has to be greater than normal asc multipler. It's not even speculation. Per click value is likely to go up significantly then there's IE7.

So the next poll should be about the expected/acceptable IDN multiplier.

[touchring]

this poll is missing a hell no option


Yup, i thought "No" is too strong a word, so i used "Rarely possible, with luck, it's possible.".

Well, there's always the lucky buy. :)

Define "sky"?

IDN multiplier has to be greater than normal asc multipler. It's not even speculation. Per click value is likely to go up significantly then there's IE7.

So the next poll should be about the expected/acceptable IDN multiplier.


Well, that's subjective - different people, buyers and sellers got different level of optimism for a particular name. In the first place, for a deal to be possible, the buyer must be more optimistic than the seller for that name. Unless there are other some serious reasons for selling, like to pay debts, etc.

I'm very curious about the current market situation - anyone studied economic in varsity? What kind of goods should domains be classified? Luxurious? Necesity? Elastic?

[bwhhisc]

Touchring...can you define "generic" so we are all on the same playing field.

There are lots of names that boarder on, or are sub-catagory generics.

Or are you only refering to premium generics that define an entire catagory- ie: vacation, cars, computers, games, etc.

[touchring]

Touchring...can you define "generic" so we are all on the same playing field.

There are lots of names that boarder on, or are sub-catagory generics.

Or are you only refering to premium generics that define an entire catagory- ie: vacation, cars, computers, games, etc.


Single word, dictionary term like Software, Job, Music, Games (well, i was told game.co.uk was WIPOed and the owner lost it!), Dictionary, Translation, Real Estate, Hotel, etc. Does not have to be huge, but at least single word.

[Explorer]

Single word, dictionary term like Software, Job, Music, Games (well, i was told game.co.uk was WIPOed and the owner lost it!), Dictionary, Translation, Real Estate, Hotel, etc. Does not have to be huge, but at least single word.


I would be very surprised if the owners even consider selling those.

[bwhhisc]

Single word, dictionary term like Software, Job, Music, Games (well, i was told game.co.uk was WIPOed and the owner lost it!), Dictionary, Translation, Real Estate, Hotel, etc. Does not have to be huge, but at least single word.

Those are all HUGE...except maybe in Africaaans. lol

[Olney]

I think no, even in undeveloped markets members might hold out.
Because of the way search engines work it's not hard to actually figure which domains will do well after they fix the parking issue.
I do feel most want to concentrate only on dot coms, I think some of us hold jps & cns generics (actually more) that might even get traffic, but there hasn't been much interest in the resell market in those. We've seen dot nets being bought for higher price than jps or cns...

There's only a limited amount of premium one word domains that everyone wants.

You sell now & you know you're not getting it back...

[Drewbert]

This looks a bit like one of those Fox News Sean Hannity polls where the real answer isn't in there because the poll asker doesn't want it included in that stats.

A bit like.

a. George Bush is doing a great job.

b. George Bush is doing OK.

c. I hate America.

:)

[Olney]

OK poll edited to include a clear "NO"

[Rubber Duck]

I'm now at my wits end on how to continue portfolio building without using a time machine. The amount of effort is getting incredible! It's NNN times harder to register or acquire a money making PPC generic today than it was 3 years ago. :p

You shouldn't be surprised. I have been talking about a rapidly closing window of opportunity for weeks. You are just confirming that that is happening. Why are you surprised that people are asking high prices, when in the same breadth you admit you have no clue where to go to get a good name? Those holding out for a half decent price have reason on their side. If they cannot get the asking now, it won't be long before they can. Those that are being completely irrational are those that are holding back expecting prices to drop further.

[Drewbert]

Your only hope now is that IE7 gets delayed and renewal time comes around and a few people get desperate for cash.

[kenne]

In another poll thread I asked, from buyer's perspective, what revenue multiplier is considered reasonable.
The results comes back solidly in the 100x-200x range, but when I put out an auction with reserve price at 100x, no one wanted it.

It's all quite puzzling.

[Olney]

We've had the opportunity to have a lot of domain investors onsite. I think many investors have invested a lot & got many good domains for reasonable prices. Those that sold some already will probably hold out unless they need to fund something or like Drewbert said people get desperate for cash.

There's also less competition "right now" for buyers.

I personally am curious to see the potential of domain parking. Even the little optimizing tips that I've suggested are making my portfolio better day by day.

[Drewbert]

In another poll thread I asked, from buyer's perspective, what revenue multiplier is considered reasonable.
The results comes back solidly in the 100x-200x range, but when I put out an auction with reserve price at 100x, no one wanted it.

It's all quite puzzling.

That's because you haven't factored in risk.

[kenne]

That's because you haven't factored in risk.
Good point! You should comment on the other thread on what kind of factor is acceptable from buyer's point of view. Naturally everybody's estimate are different. Personally I think 100x year-revenue(at this point) is a good deal, but I'd like to find out whether there's some kind of concensus, especially among some of the old hands at asci/idn domains.

[touchring]

Good point! You should comment on the other thread on what kind of factor is acceptable from buyer's point of view. Naturally everybody's estimate are different. Personally I think 100x year-revenue(at this point) is a good deal, but I'd like to find out whether there's some kind of concensus, especially among some of the old hands at asci/idn domains.


Surely, especially when it comes to profit margin. You might be surprised that many here would need 100 times profit margin before they commit, and they got many ways of achieving that. Ever since i learnt my lesson with ASCII names (some stuck), i can conclude that knowledge is more powerful than money in domaining. A good insider info can beat millions of dollars.

[kenne]

Surely, especially when it comes to profit margin. You might be surprised that many here would need 100 times profit margin before they commit, and they got many ways of achieving that. Ever since i learnt my lesson with ASCII names (some stuck), i can conclude that knowledge is more powerful than money in domaining. A good insider info can beat millions of dollars.

Hmmm, you mean they expect to make 100x their investment? At this point, that is skyhigh expectation indeed. Especially with traffic domain being less risky by its very nature (seller giving you explicit and honest information on a platter), it will be unreasonable to demand huge risk premiums.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get <100x. Maybe, but no one should act surprised that these deals are few and far in between.

Forgive me for sounding a little bitter over this. Still trying to figure out this marketplace; it seems unfair that the seller has to disclose all sorts of information about their domains, yet buyers are reluctant/unable to even give a guideline multiplier, AND expect a nosebleed bargain. That's why I have decided I'll no longer run public traffic domain sales/auctions. Will only accept PM transactions with specific requirements.

[touchring]

Hmmm, you mean they expect to make 100x their investment? At this point, that is skyhigh expectation indeed. Especially with traffic domain being less risky by its very nature (seller giving you explicit and honest information on a platter), it will be unreasonable to demand huge risk premiums.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get <100x. Maybe, but no one should act surprised that these deals are few and far in between.

Maybe I should write a post to buy traffic domains too, get everyone's information and offer a price that allows me to make 100x on my investment too! Next time, I'll certainly be careful replying to these buy requests.


Ummm...those who expect 100x returns are seldom buyers on this forum.... They are usually sellers only.

I personally am comfortable with 5-10 times return, but even that it's quite impossible right now, though I managed to achieve a little of that early this year. Some Chinese adult names that i bought and got some traffic, e.g.

Name/Avg Daily Traffic/Price paid
偷拍.com/30 views/mid$xxx
乱伦.com/5 views/low$xxx
黄色网.com/10 views/low$xx
做爱.net/2 views/low $xx

Note: Prices are several months ago, please do not factor into current valuation!

[kenne]

Ummm...those who expect 100x returns are seldom buyers on this forum.... They are usually sellers only.

I personally am comfortable with 5-10 times return, but even that it's quite impossible right now, though I managed to achieve a little of that early this year. Some Chinese adult names that i bought and got some traffic, e.g.

Name/Avg Daily Traffic/Price paid
偷拍.com/30 views/mid$xxx
乱伦.com/5 views/low$xxx
黄色网.com/10 views/low$xx
做爱.net/2 views/low $xx

Note: Prices are several months ago, please do not factor into current valuation!

Those are very nice deals. Thanks for sharing. Do they have reasonable clickrates too?


Also another important question is: when you bought them, did the seller market them as Traffic domains? If not, then you took risks (possibly armed with better information than the seller) and are rewarded with very good deals. So even if these sales happened today, it still doesn't reflect on the fair market multiplier.

[touchring]

Those are very nice deals. Thanks for sharing. Do they have reasonable clickrates too?


Also another important question is: when you bought them, did the seller market them as Traffic domains? If not, then you took risks (possibly armed with better information than the seller) and are rewarded with very good deals. So even if these sales happened today, it still doesn't reflect on the fair market multiplier.


No, at that time, few people sold on traffic. I bought without knowledge of traffic as well. I just based on US OVT. CTR is 8% average. Also, I assume that views is based on 流量 (i still can't differentiate between 流量 and 搜索).

Also, i must add that the names are bought on open sale on forums, some via auctions in which i'm the highest bidder.

[kenne]

I think at the time people's attention (at least my attention) were elsewhere, and haven't yet formed
good approximation for traffic.

Anyway, interesting story, thanks for sharing. I'd like to hear more cases where sellers knowingly part with IDNs for under x100.
Maybe they need the money to go to hospital or something :o

[touchring]

I think the biggest question right now for Chinese names is the marketshare of cnnic plugins. If i were buying Chinese names right now as i did early in the year, i will definitely spend some time to investigate this anomaly, as i did to find out if chinese.com were blocked early Feb, and which i shared the findings on this forum immediately.

[kenne]

From an informal poll I did with family and friends back in China, the cnnic plugin is actually not as popular as claimed (only 1 out of a dozen people). So i'm not too worried about that. Does someone else have information on that?
Would appreciate it.

[Olney]

Actually it can happen.
Seeing if I can raise development money I put up my domain for transvestite.com in Japanese.
I would have even took $2,000. OVT is high (close to 200K), even has good value on Google trends.
I put it up twice.. Even as recent as beginning of the month.
Not one single offer, both times.

I didn't really look at my NameDrive stats but now it finally got indexed on Yahoo on the 7th I'm getting like 1 to 7 views a day (3 or 5 average) with $.77 to $1.00 a click & 33% CTR...

You know how mad I would have been if I sold it for that price & didn't realize it's averaging $.77 a click??? & it's getting steady traffic now.

We won't know a domains potential till they fix parking for certain regions. This is one of my first domains, you know how much revenue I must be loosing from not having domains indexed?

I believe some will sell not knowing how much a domain can get...

[touchring]

From an informal poll I did with family and friends back in China, the cnnic plugin is actually not as popular as claimed (only 1 out of a dozen people). So i'm not too worried about that. Does someone else have information on that?
Would appreciate it.


Yes, few people will go and download a spyware, the plugin is like a spyware, many people reported installing it or it came with China made PC, without knowing it.

The first time i tried visiting an idn.cn website in China using IE6, the ISP actually pushed me an install cnnic plugin link, i'm not sure if it's only for that ISP or it's nationwide, but the fact that the ISP can actually detect someone trying to access idn on an non-idn browser surprised me.

I only did limited study on this area, so more research is required. Meanwhile, try searching "cnnic 流氓软件" in Baidu.com.

[kenne]

Exactly. And SC parking is not perfect for Chinese parking either. I noticed quite often that SC is very slow and unresponsive, and my click rates suffer as a result.

International development/parking is likely to evolve, become more profitable; and we look back to find even 200x bargains.

Yes, few people will go and download a spyware, the plugin is like a spyware, many people reported installing it or it came with China made PC, without knowing it.

The first time i tried visiting an idn.cn website in China using IE6, the ISP actually pushed me an install cnnic plugin link, i'm not sure if it's only for that ISP or it's nationwide.

Try searching "cnnic 流氓软件" in Baidu.com.

Yes I've heard sth about it too (may well be very wide scale); CNNIC is actively pushing for it, but not much traction yet, and IE7 will level the playing field.

[touchring]

Exactly. And SC parking is not perfect for Chinese parking either. I noticed quite often that SC is very slow and unresponsive, and my click rates suffer as a result.

International development/parking is likely to evolve, become more profitable; and we look back to find even 200x bargains.



Yes I've heard sth about it too (may well be very wide scale); CNNIC is actively pushing for it, but not much traction yet, and IE7 will level the playing field.


Well, not so sure about the multiplication in the short term, but there are now a few options to acquire names. btw, how's your anti-virus? :)