World languages, which is easier to learn (speaking only)?

[touchring]

Hehe, since we got so many types of speakers here, let's vote. :)

England
Spain
France
China (Mandarin)
China (Cantonese)
Arabic
Thai
Japanese

[Rubber Duck]

Clearly this is a nonsensical question. Not only is England not a language, but the whole thing is premised by your starting point.

Closely related languages are the easiest for anyone to learn. Some Latin languages are almost dialects of others and mutual comprehensible, as are some Slavic Languages.

Clearly Cantonese and Mandarin are more closely related than English and Mandarin.

[Prodigy]

From a person that speaks 5 different languages, all predominantly Asia, I don't really see a point in this... it depends where you start from and how you proceed... for instance, if you know Chinese, then it's relatively easy to pick up Japanese and then picking up Korean is a sinch.

Wait, whats the point of this poll again?

[Rubber Duck]

I think it was primarily intended to bury the scent on the assinine comments made on the "Thailand in Trouble" Thread.

I think it about time we had a monthly award for the most ludicrous assertion on the forum. Now that would make a really interesting topic for discussion and use the potential of the polling feature to full effect.

[touchring]

I think it was primarily intended to bury the scent on the assinine comments made on the "Thailand in Trouble" Thread.

I think it about time we had a monthly award for the most ludicrous assertion on the forum. Now that would make a really interesting topic for discussion and use the potential of the polling feature to full effect.


Good try, but unfortuntely not, i was looking at the global language of the world thread on skyscraper forum - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=382047

Thailand is in trouble, this is the truth, even if the Thais themselves do not realize or would not admit it owing to national pride, which is understandable.

The military has taken over the democratic government and there is serious power struggle within the elites, all fighting over money and power.

This is how the Thai monarch maintains control, rule by division - it's an old management trick which i'm sure many of you are familiar with.

BTW, is Thaksin now hiding in China? China's backing him? :)

[Rubber Duck]

BTW, is Thaksin now hiding in China? China's backing him? :)

Yes, well he has probably been doing dodgy deals there as well!

I think I prefer politicians whose foreign counterparts dislike them! No of the other head of state every like Thatcher, but to be fair she never sold us down the river!

[touchring]

Yes, well he has probably been doing dodgy deals there as well!

I think I prefer politicians whose foreign counterparts dislike them! No of the other head of state every like Thatcher, but to be fair she never sold us down the river!


The situation is quite complicated for Thaksin's case, Thaksin's a Hakka Chinese by ethnicity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

Thaksin Shinawatra (help·info) (Thai: ทักษิณ ชินวัตร, IPA: [tʰáksǐn tɕʰinnawát]; born July 26, 1949 in Chiang Mai, Thailand with family roots in Meizhou, Guangdong, China), Thai businessman and politician, is the deposed Prime Minister of Thailand and the former leader of the populist Thai Rak Thai party. He is married to Potjaman Shinawatra, and has one son, Panthongtae and two daughters.

Embassy 'silent' on Thaksin's trip to China

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/03/headlines/headlines_30017939.php


China's influence in East Asia is significant, even greater than the US, not in terms of military but economic. Ethnic Chinese businessmen dominate much of the economies in South East Asia, and how their funds flow can sometimes determine the medium to long term economic prospects of the country. These businessmen, along with HK and Taiwan counterparts invested heavily in China in the 90s to kickstart its market economy.

[domainguru]

Good try, but unfortuntely not, i was looking at the global language of the world thread on skyscraper forum - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=382047

Thailand is in trouble, this is the truth, even if the Thais themselves do not realize or would not admit it owing to national pride, which is understandable.

The military has taken over the democratic government and there is serious power struggle within the elites, all fighting over money and power.

This is how the Thai monarch maintains control, rule by division - it's an old management trick which i'm sure many of you are familiar with.

BTW, is Thaksin now hiding in China? China's backing him? :)

Still talking bollocks I see ....

I am not Thai, and do not have "Thai national pride" as such. However I have lived here for 15 years and clearly understand the situation a whole lot better than you.

That you refer to Thaksin's previous government as "democratic" shows you have 0% knowledge of Thaksin or how he came to power. Put it simply, he bought his way into power through buying votes of poor people. I saw it first hand. The price in our village in the first election was 500B per voter. Everyone in Thailand knows the truth. You clearly do not.

And then to go on and insult the King, whom by the way Thais *genuinely* love, is ... not a good idea. I will leave it at that.

[touchring]

Still talking bollocks I see ....

I am not Thai, and do not have "Thai national pride" as such. However I have lived here for 15 years and clearly understand the situation a whole lot better than you.

That you refer to Thaksin's previous government as "democratic" shows you have 0% knowledge of Thaksin or how he came to power. Put it simply, he bought his way into power through buying votes of poor people. I saw it first hand. The price in our village in the first election was 500B per voter. Everyone in Thailand knows the truth. You clearly do not.

And then to go on and insult the King, whom by the way Thais *genuinely* love, is ... not a good idea. I will leave it at that.


If "rule by division" is an insult, there is no room for liberal debate at all.

If there is vote buying, then Thaksin should be arrested by the military and prosecuted by law - there is no need for a coup. If Thailand really wants to go the "clean" way, all corrupted officials, civilian or military should be charged.

Here, we only talk, whatever we say has no effect on what happens in Thailand, life still goes on. Right or Wrong, history will be the final judge. :)

[domainguru]

If there is vote buying, then Thaksin should be arrested and prosecuted by the military - there is no need for a coup.

If "rule by division" is an insult, there is no room for liberal debate at all.

After winning the first election, he appointed all his friends and family as head of this and that. Who was going to press charges when he had cronies occupying all important parts of government, military, judges?

Again, you show absolute lack of knowledge about what happened in Thailand. I suggest you go and do some reading if you want to have a useful debate.

To show you how bad things got, it was actually Thaksin's hand-appointed military that eventually staged the coup against him. They realized Thaksin was having such a bad effect on the country, they could no longer stand still and watch it happen. The headline "Thailand In Trouble" was 100 times more apt when Thaksin was still in power and sucking money out of Thailand into his Swiss bank account.

That includes the issue with the Muslims in the South where Thaksin employed some horrific tactics that can only prolong the conflict rather than solve it.

[touchring]

After winning the first election, he appointed all his friends and family as head of this and that. Who was going to press charges when he had cronies occupying all important parts of government, military, judges?

Again, you show absolute lack of knowledge about what happened in Thailand. I suggest you go and do some reading if you want to have a useful debate.

To show you how bad things got, it was actually Thaksin's hand-appointed military that eventually staged the coup against him. They realized Thaksin was having such a bad effect on the country, they could no longer stand still and watch it happen. The headline "Thailand In Trouble" was 100 times more apt when Thaksin was still in power and sucking money out of Thailand into his Swiss bank account.

That includes the issue with the Muslims in the South where Thaksin employed some horrific tactics that can only prolong the conflict rather than solve it.


Yes, i read about these, but still can't understand why Thailand will be in trouble when Thaksin was in power, when Bangkok was having the best of times the past 5 years. The capital city has improved tremendously, the countryside living standards improved.

To me, this is just a power struggle among the elites and the upper class - Thaksin camp versus other camps, and the final victims will be the rice farmers.

[Rubber Duck]

If there is vote buying, then Thaksin should be arrested by the military and prosecuted by law - there is no need for a coup. If Thailand really wants to go the "clean" way, all corrupted officials, civilian or military should be arrested and put into prison. No stones should be left unturned.

If "rule by division" is an insult, there is no room for liberal debate at all.

Here, we only talk, whatever we say has no effect on what happens in Thailand, life still goes on. Right or Wrong, history will judge.

Your knowledge on these matters is astounding.

In a democracy the military do not arrest anyone for criminal activity. That is the role of the police. But as the Civilian Government controls the police force the liklihood of an arrest of a current head of government is extremely unlikely, even if it is constitutionally possible.

The only way around an such an impass, if the democratic rights of the people are to be protected, is for the military to intervene. If the miliitary have the authority of the titular head of state all the better, but you have to understand that due to the fragility of the situation that may not be possible at the time.

It would seem that Thaksin is nothing but a criminal in exile. I cannot see what the fuss is about in terms of his future or his rights. There is still the problem or returning the Thailand to stable democratic rule, but Thaksin seems to be the one that has created the mess. He is the last person that should be involved in finding a solution to problem.

[domainguru]

Yes, i read about these, but still can't understand why Thailand will be in trouble when Thaksin was in power, when Bangkok was having the best of times the past 5 years. The capital city has improved tremendously, the countryside living standards improved.

To me, this is just a power struggle among the elites and the upper class - Thaksin camp versus other camps, and the final victims will be the rice farmers.

So it is ok for a corupt leader to profit to the tune of billions of dollars from new airports, bogus military spends etc. just as long as "Bangkok was having the best of times the past 5 years" ??? What planet are you from?

I can assure you - rice farmers have seen no significant improvements to their lives in the last 5 years, apart perhaps from their "election income" ;-)

[touchring]

So it is ok for a corupt leader to profit to the tune of billions of dollars from new airports, bogus military spends etc. just as long as "Bangkok was having the best of times the past 5 years" ??? What planet are you from?

No, it's not correct, this is corruption, and he should be prosecuted. The Thais should ask interpol to arrest him. :)

[Rubber Duck]

No, it's not correct, this is corruption, and he should be prosecuted. The Thais should ask interpol to arrest him. :)

That is a pretty meaningless statement if he is in the PRC and they won't extradite him.

[TrafficDomainer]

As I was born in Thailand and lived most of my life there, I would like to point out that Thaksin is no question the most corrupt prime minister Thailand has ever seen. He robbed the nation point blank. He first started to enrich himself when he was a police officer. After he left the service, he bribed the Thai Police Department to buy overpriced computer systems that amounted to many million dollars. After he amassed some wealth, he went on to bribe the state to get telecom concessions both with cell/mobile phones and satellite systems.

He strategically eventualy placed his cronies in all the important positions and no one could touch him. Sadly even the judiciary system was bought out that no one could charge him with anything whether it was election fraud or his wife buying land owned by the state at a fraction of the market price. And may I remind you that it was the just and loved king of Thailand who urged the courts to reconsider the cases against election fraud that eventually brought hope to the Thai people and brought justice back to Thais as the election was eventually declared null and void due to frauds.

Thanksin also went on to silence the media and sued everyone that spoke against him or threathen his interest. His final downfall came when he sold his businesses to the Singapore government through their Temesek investment arm. Thai law clearly states that foreigners are not allowed to own more than 49% in most of the business sectors especially those that may pose national security risks or where Thai industries are not strong enough to withstand foreign competition. Yet Thaksin worked out a deal and alledgedly colluded with Temesek to circumvent the rule and sold his company with heavy state concessions for hefty profit. He effectively sold his soul for money with no respect for any law. Without military intervention Thailand's justice and long term economic prospects were at risk as the system of check and balance failed as his own men were checking and balancing his bank accounts at the expense of the country.

As for the poor farmers, it may have appreared that they are better off but actually they are in heavy debts as he induced them to spend on luxury goods by borrowing money from his own financing firm, "Capital OK"

No, it's not correct, this is corruption, and he should be prosecuted. The Thais should ask interpol to arrest him. :)

[touchring]

If Thaksin is guilty of all these crimes, why isn't he charged in court and arrested for his crimes?

Instead, he is now happily traveling from country to country, giving press reviews along the way, and talking about him being denied return to Thailand.

If Thailand can't enforce law and order, and separate business from politics, this Thaksin affair will put to question the reliability and integrity of the Thai legal system. No big investor will consider putting money into Thailand if the judiciary system and public opinion can be manipulated each time a new ruler takes over in a coup every 10 years or so. Those already in will be planning ways to reduce their risk exposure in case they fall into disfavor.

This is a step back for the whole of South East Asia region, very bad publicity at a time when China is sucking in all the funds, and even more so now, after the Thai coup.

[TrafficDomainer]

As Domain Guru tried to explain earlier, laws could not be enforced as Thaksin bought over the government and to a certain extent the judiciary system itself. He was running the country like a mafia Godfather. The government installed by the coup could have charged Thaksin quickly but they wanted it to be done with due process and that's why it has taken some time to gather evidence to prosecute him.

After the coup foreign investment in Thailand has grown stronger at unprescendented level leading to the Thai Baht becoming the currency in Asia to have gained the most against $US in recent months. Big auto makers like Toyota and Honda have announced plans to invest more in Thailand after the coup as they view that there is now more political stability and the current government endorsed by the King is working hard to put the right mechanism in place to prevent future abuses of power by the next elected government.

Since you asked about Thaksin's prosecution, here it is: http://bangkokpost.com/News/18Dec2006_news02.php

The Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) is to decide today whether deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Khunying Potjaman are guilty of violating corruption laws in a 772-million-baht land deal in 2003, an ASC member said yesterday.


Udom Fuangfung, member of the ASC and head of a committee sub-panel probing the deal, said his team has completed the investigation and the findings are to be tabled before the 11-member committee today.


A source in the sub-panel revealed that the team has detailed the names and roles of a number of people involved in the deal in its report.


The ASC will use the information from the sub-panel's report to decide whether Mr Thaksin and his wife had violated the anti-corruption act.


The report also suggests what further action the ASC should take.


The investigation focused on the legal interpretation of Article 100 of the National Counter Corruption Act which bars officials including prime ministers, cabinet members and their spouses from entering into or having interests in contracts made with state agencies under their authorisation.


In 2003, Khunying Potjaman bid for four plots of land in the Ratchadapisek area that were put up for auction by the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund (FIDF).


She secured the deal and paid 772 million baht for a 33-rai plot.


Noppadol Pattama, the Shinawatra family lawyer, has insisted the deal does not breach Article 100 because Mr Thaksin, as prime minister then, did not directly control the FIDF.


But the sub-panel has questioned a wide range of witnesses including several bidders who had taken part in the state auctions and two former prime ministers, Chuan Leekpai and Banharn Silpa-archa.


Statements given by these witnesses will help the ASC to decide whether there was a conflict of interest in the deal by determining whether Mr Thaksin, as prime minister, had the authority to control the fund and thus violated the law, the source said.


The source refused to be too specific on the sub-panel's ruling on the case, but said if the ASC finds Mr Thaksin and his wife guilty, it will have to instruct related agencies such as the FIDF and the Bank of Thailand, as damaged parties, to lodge a complaint against the couple with the ASC.


It will then set up an inquiry team to look into the case and summon involved parties for questioning before forwarding its findings to the Office of the Attorney-General, which would take the case to court.


The sub-panel's conclusion also refers to Article 122 of the same act which stipulates imprisonment of up to three years and a fine of up to 60,000 baht for violations of Article 100, the source added.


While this punitive section provides immunity for those who have not acknowledged a violation by their spouses, the source noted the protection would not apply to Mr Thaksin as he had already signed a letter of consent _ previously uncovered by the media _ for his wife to pursue the land purchase deal.






If Thaksin is guilty of all these crimes, why isn't he charged in court and arrested for his crimes?

Instead, he is now happily traveling from country to country, giving press reviews along the way, and talking about him being denied return to Thailand.

If Thailand can't enforce law and order, and separate business from politics, this Thaksin affair will put to question the reliability and integrity of the Thai legal system. No big investor will consider putting money into Thailand if the judiciary system can be manipulated each time a new ruler takes over in a coup every 10 years or so. Those already in will be planning ways to reduce their risk exposure in case they fall into disfavor.

This is a step back for the whole of South East Asia region, very bad publicity at a time when China is sucking in all the funds, and even more so now, after the Thai coup.

[touchring]

Thks, this is great info, looking forward on the progress of the prosecution.

Also, if Thailand really wants to clear up corruption, they need to prosecute the other officials, army officers, mainstream and opposition, even those under the King. There must be tens of thousands of officials guilty of corruption and favoratism.

If corruption is not stamped out beyond Thaksin's case, after 10 years, there will yet be another coup.