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blastfromthepast
21st December 2006, 05:58 AM
Developing is a time consuming process and that is why I've become an advocate of development experts partnering with premium domain owners. If there was ever a marriage made in heaven it is this one. The synergistic capacity for revenue generation is unstoppable. It all comes down to people understanding the limitations of their current situation and wanting more. Yes, good developers will always make money. Yes, premium domain name owners can always park their names and generate revenue via their intuitive traffic. But very few in either situation will ever make real money.”

Michael added, “The URL could be the ultimate search engine. A visitor should be able to put up any word, add .com and get exactly what they are looking for. To not do so loses market share for that name. If a visitor types in a top-level name and does not find what they are looking for they will look elsewhere, you then help to create you own competition. If a good domain is parked, it is not going to get you the full value of that name. PalmSprings.com does seven figures a year in advertising revenue. If PalmSprings.com was just a parked name it would fetch far less. Intuitive names must be developed,” he said.

DNJournal Cover Story
http://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2006/december-page2.htm

Bimbo
21st December 2006, 08:10 AM
kiss

burnsinternet
21st December 2006, 02:35 PM
Are there languages that should just be parked and sold or does every language IDN benefit from mini-sites? Most of us have far too many domains to create beefy, quality sites.

Bimbo
21st December 2006, 06:40 PM
kiss

alpha
21st December 2006, 06:59 PM
Hey Bimbo, I just been reading some of your posts. what's with all the hostility ?

Fka200
21st December 2006, 07:06 PM
I already said, but here nobody listen a bimbo blonde,
i experienced +100 personal websites STRICKLY IDENTICAL (excep title, meta.. offcourse)

> 1 week to develop
> 1 week to link, SEO, ....
> 3 years I'm happy without work

I'm not a lyer, 2 weeks for 3 years (believe me or not i don't care while here you think so little, with parking, mdr)

Bimbo not as blonde as you....

So you really don't want to me i tell the little tips about .org.....
But why??

So creating a 100+ identical websites is still a good idea? I want to do it, but not sure.. can you give us an example of one of ur sites??

Bimbo
21st December 2006, 08:05 PM
kiss

touchring
21st December 2006, 08:55 PM
I already said, but here nobody listen a bimbo blonde,
i experienced +100 personal websites STRICKLY IDENTICAL (excep title, meta.. offcourse)

> 1 week to develop
> 1 week to link, SEO, ....
> 3 years I'm happy without work

I'm not a lyer, 2 weeks for 3 years (believe me or not i don't care while here you think so little, with parking, mdr)

Bimbo not as blonde as you....

So you really don't want to me i tell the little tips about .org.....
But why??


With similar content will adsense show the correct ads? If there are no contents, will that be an infringement on Google rules?

Also, Google imposes a penalty on websites with similar content.

Bimbo
21st December 2006, 09:00 PM
kiss

touchring
22nd December 2006, 03:48 AM
with no adsens for them, espotting

and like i said, it works especially well with MSN/LiveSearch (less than gg, but more easy)

but there's content offcourse (i can't explain more, you understand?)


Yes, espotting, i noticed that, a French PPC company. I tried signing up but i remembered there were obstacles.

Content - from espotting or some syndicate or RSS service? Hehe, i know you can't explain more, but anyway, i'll try and guess.

blastfromthepast
22nd December 2006, 05:17 AM
The way to do it is this. I'm working on a similarly structured dynamic content system right now myself.

...

Monte: Right, right. Well, that's great. And something else that's dynamic about your business is that when you have 28,000, 29,000 websites, you have to keep up with content, obviously, when you have them, and I understand, if I understand this correctly, that each of these websites have many, many pages of content and that it is updated on a regular basis. How does that all work?

Maurice; Well, they created (Anthony and the IT and Optimization Team) something called the Global Editing System and kind of like a content manager. We can buy, Monte, 10,000 domain names tomorrow and have them up the next day.

Monte: Yeah, that's what's incredible, this content management system you guys have is very dynamic.

Maurice: . . . .[inaudible], but all, the great thing about it is its not just up with a nice little web page, its all pertinent content, you know, to that state or that city or to the area of practice to the financial planner or whatever it may be.

Monte: Right. And it's updated, how often is that content updated? And how is it automated?

Maurice: Um, I don't really know how it's automated. I don't really get into the system too much like that, but I believe it's updated every other week. Every other week, or every week. I don't really get into the optimization end of it.

Monte: Right, right. So they're updating content on a bi-weekly basis basically, and I know its tapped into some local and state government sites that's updating new and updated information regarding, you know, accident processing and filing and new laws and rules and regulations and that kind of stuff and I saw a demonstration of it in your office where I think it was Alabama Accident Attorneys or Alabama Accidents or something like that . . .

http://www.moniker.com/domain-masters/ep-2005-10-05/page-1.jsp

touchring
22nd December 2006, 06:11 AM
The way to do it is this. I'm working on a similarly structured dynamic content system right now myself.

...

Monte: Right, right. Well, that's great. And something else that's dynamic about your business is that when you have 28,000, 29,000 websites, you have to keep up with content, obviously, when you have them, and I understand, if I understand this correctly, that each of these websites have many, many pages of content and that it is updated on a regular basis. How does that all work?

Maurice; Well, they created (Anthony and the IT and Optimization Team) something called the Global Editing System and kind of like a content manager. We can buy, Monte, 10,000 domain names tomorrow and have them up the next day.

Monte: Yeah, that's what's incredible, this content management system you guys have is very dynamic.

Maurice: . . . .[inaudible], but all, the great thing about it is its not just up with a nice little web page, its all pertinent content, you know, to that state or that city or to the area of practice to the financial planner or whatever it may be.

Monte: Right. And it's updated, how often is that content updated? And how is it automated?

Maurice: Um, I don't really know how it's automated. I don't really get into the system too much like that, but I believe it's updated every other week. Every other week, or every week. I don't really get into the optimization end of it.

Monte: Right, right. So they're updating content on a bi-weekly basis basically, and I know its tapped into some local and state government sites that's updating new and updated information regarding, you know, accident processing and filing and new laws and rules and regulations and that kind of stuff and I saw a demonstration of it in your office where I think it was Alabama Accident Attorneys or Alabama Accidents or something like that . . .

http://www.moniker.com/domain-masters/ep-2005-10-05/page-1.jsp


Yes, i've been looking for such a solution.

Google changes it's adsense rules and algo so often, it will be nightmare to change 100 sites manually everytime Google lays a new rule, and if you are lucky enough to receive an "inform" letter from them, you'll be given 3 days to make the amendment!

Bimbo
22nd December 2006, 10:22 AM
kiss

domainguru
22nd December 2006, 01:15 PM
Are there languages that should just be parked and sold or does every language IDN benefit from mini-sites? Most of us have far too many domains to create beefy, quality sites.

I believe we need to lose this "mini-site mentality". Mini-sites, and by that I mean sites of just a few pages of unoriginal content have very little advantage (if any) over parked pages.

Sure we have too many names to develop them all properly. But start with one. Every journey begins with a single step. Develop one IDN into a real website with original content and sticky visitors, get it to the top of the search engines using the "keyword advantage" and you will get 100 times more traffic than with a parked page or mini-site. As a valuable side-effect, you will be promoting IDNs to the "masses", and thereby increasing the value of your entire portfolio. Follow Olney's lead, he's been talking about real site development since day one

bramiozo
22nd December 2006, 03:56 PM
The argument put forward in the OP should indeed apply to mini-sites in the conventional meaning of the phrase since in effect they seem to be parking pages V2. For argument sake let's view mini-sites as unique parking pages with added content, would the uniqueness and the added content bind and attract visitors and give the site good SEO potential for large keywords compared to normal parking pages ? ...

The value of a website is determined by the size and quality of it's userbase and not by the quality of the content, although they are related of course.
Visitor recurrence should be the primary objective imo.

I think it's an illusion that the notion of uniqueness will convince the visitor to come by more often and tell his friends, imo any added value of these mini-sites is artificial and mostly based on our perception that it is "better" than normal parking pages. Conventional parking will only cause our names to drop in value for the simple reason that it is done on a massive scale and it adds no value whatsoever to the domain names which are parked , mini-sites are not any different.

If you have hundreds of solid names then you have hundreds of opportunities for development, begin by choosing 1.

I think more effort should be put into bringing developers and domain owners together, there are millions of people out there who have webdevelopment skills, you just need a few of them to work for you.

alpha
22nd December 2006, 04:13 PM
The argument put forward in the OP should indeed apply to mini-sites in the conventional meaning of the phrase since in effect they seem to be parking pages V2. For argument sake let's view mini-sites as unique parking pages with added content, would the uniqueness and the added content bind and attract visitors and give the site good SEO potential for large keywords compared to normal parking pages ? ...

The value of a website is determined by the size and quality of it's userbase and not by the quality of the content, although they are related of course.
Visitor recurrence should be the primary objective imo.

I think it's an illusion that the notion of uniqueness will convince the visitor to come by more often and tell his friends, imo any added value of these mini-sites is artificial and mostly based on our perception that it is "better" than normal parking pages. Conventional parking will only cause our names to drop in value for the simple reason that it is done on a massive scale and it adds no value whatsoever to the domain names which are parked , mini-sites are not any different.

If you have hundreds of solid names then you have hundreds of opportunities for development, begin by choosing 1.

I think more effort should be put into bringing developers and domain owners together, there are millions of people out there who have webdevelopment skills, you just need a few of them to work for you.


sure Bram, but which of mine do i develop? i cant develop all of them. I think so far in this evolutionaty process, the attractiveness of mini-sites is simply a way around the indexing issue in Japan. otherwise as you say it's just a parking page in disguise and will not attract repeat visitors.

domainguru
22nd December 2006, 04:45 PM
sure Bram, but which of mine do i develop? i cant develop all of them. I think so far in this evolutionaty process, the attractiveness of mini-sites is simply a way around the indexing issue in Japan. otherwise as you say it's just a parking page in disguise and will not attract repeat visitors.

You get to choose, that's the beauty of owning hundreds of names. Pick one that attracts a lot of searches (so you will potentially get lots of search engine visitors and eventually typeins) and the keyword should also be in a valuable market sector.

Rubber Duck
22nd December 2006, 05:29 PM
The thing I don't quite buy in all of this, is that we are all suppose to believe that a significant number of players are making substantial revenues from Mini-Sites, yet if they had the proof that this works and were actually seeing substantial amounts of real revenue, you would have thought that some of them at least would be back into the seconary market trying to make fresh acquisition of quality domains.

114211
22nd December 2006, 06:01 PM
I hope that when the time to develop does roll around all of us here can work together to develop a strong backlink and hard link trade to assure permanence in the #1 spot on serps. :) I wouldn't have a problem with that.

domainguru
22nd December 2006, 06:03 PM
The thing I don't quite buy in all of this, is that we are all suppose to believe that a significant number of players are making substantial revenues from Mini-Sites, yet if they had the proof that this works and were actually seeing substantial amounts of real revenue, you would have thought that some of them at least would be back into the seconary market trying to make fresh acquisition of quality domains.

I think most of us are saying that indeed you are right. Mini-sites are not the way forward, they are little better if any than parking pages. You've got to aim high, and that means real developed sites, for all the pain there is in site / business development.

Rubber Duck
22nd December 2006, 07:00 PM
I think most of us are saying that indeed you are right. Mini-sites are not the way forward, they are little better if any than parking pages. You've got to aim high, and that means real developed sites, for all the pain there is in site / business development.

I agree, but dispite all the flannel I have heard about creating real sites, I have yet to be made aware of many, although it would seem that some of Yanni's and Alex's developments have duped me into thinking they were the real article. Mind you when it comes to creating Trojans, the Greeks have a head start on all of us.

Fka200
22nd December 2006, 07:18 PM
only reason i want to start developing some of my sites is because there are a few very nice names but no viewers --- want to see what will happen if they get indexed and if traffic comes up. I've set up a schedule for a month long experiment of tweaking and what not, and will see what happens.

bramiozo
22nd December 2006, 07:37 PM
sure Bram, but which of mine do i develop? i cant develop all of them. I think so far in this evolutionaty process, the attractiveness of mini-sites is simply a way around the indexing issue in Japan. otherwise as you say it's just a parking page in disguise and will not attract repeat visitors.

If it would definitely make a difference in income over a large amount of names then I would consider it a priority to use mini-sites but that's more out of necessity.

A large portfolio would give you at least of couple of names which arouse your personal enthusiasm and which constitute a business opportunity, right ?

rhys
22nd December 2006, 08:24 PM
I see it as an activity that evolves over time. First, I think there is no doubt that mini-site development can make a significant difference in traffic and revenue. Basically the difference between making zero on a domain and making your annual registration+ over the course of a year. Clearly the best is to make an actual content-rich, deep, and dynamic site which gets repeat visitors.

Some may decide you do it right or don't do it at all. As for myself personally, I can make mini-sites myself with little problem which places the opportunity to have all my domains paying for themselves within my reach. I am not proficient enough to do a "real" site by myself. For that I need the investment dollars that will come when I no longer have to support the reg fees from my domain portfolio.

domainguru
22nd December 2006, 08:39 PM
I agree, but dispite all the flannel I have heard about creating real sites, I have yet to be made aware of many, although it would seem that some of Yanni's and Alex's developments have duped me into thinking they were the real article. Mind you when it comes to creating Trojans, the Greeks have a head start on all of us.

All I can say is that next year my plans revolve entirely around making real sites in the Thai market. And I know Olney has been site building since day one. Perhaps the real site builders are too busy making sites to make lots of noise in the forums. There is no doubt site building is an extremely time consuming business.

blastfromthepast
22nd December 2006, 09:12 PM
• Japanese domains make close to ZERO income parked.
• Japanese do not typein.
• Japanese search.
• Search engines don't include parking sites for very long.

= Developing a minisite is cheap and brings traffic from Yahoo Japan.
= The longer a site is up, the higher ranking it can get.
= If a site has unique content, it can get higher ranking.
= Your domain matching the search term exactly you get high ranking.
= Higher ranking means you place on the first page or within the first 5 search results.
= People click on ads on your site, you get paid.
= If people see a minisite and think the ads are links to another part of the site, or to other sites, they click to get more information.
= AdSense is the first step, the second is affiliate programs, which pay per conversion.

Pretty simple formula.

burnsinternet
22nd December 2006, 09:21 PM
Bimbo not as blonde as you....

Correct, you are probably not as blonde as me. Or do you think blondes are dumb?

Why are you posting 'kiss' everywhere? Affectionate Christmas wishes? Is this a domain you want? Kiss.hn is available.

I believe we need to lose this "mini-site mentality". Mini-sites, and by that I mean sites of just a few pages of unoriginal content have very little advantage (if any) over parked pages.

Sure we have too many names to develop them all properly. But start with one. Every journey begins with a single step. Develop one IDN into a real website with original content and sticky visitors, get it to the top of the search engines using the "keyword advantage" and you will get 100 times more traffic than with a parked page or mini-site. As a valuable side-effect, you will be promoting IDNs to the "masses", and thereby increasing the value of your entire portfolio. Follow Olney's lead, he's been talking about real site development since day one

I understand your feeling, but developing one site in a language you don't speak can take a whole lot more time than developing 10 sites in your native language. I used to run approximately 100 web sites and parked the rest. They were beautiful content-filled sites, but it was much more work than a 'regular job' and much less reliable income. I also got tired of keeping up with them and went back into the urban work world.

I am now faced with the prospect of developing in another language or parking. I cannot be sure of the ROI on hiring someone to create and manage full-time sites and I can never be sure that the translations are accurate or that the site is natural for that language/culture.

Parking income from many domains is low, so I am just looking for a better way for now. I don't see mini-sites (mile-wide and inch-deep) as a permanent solution, but I need to start somewhere...

only reason i want to start developing some of my sites is because there are a few very nice names but no viewers --- want to see what will happen if they get indexed and if traffic comes up. I've set up a schedule for a month long experiment of tweaking and what not, and will see what happens.

Same here. I have some good names but few visitors in some languages. If I saw a few clicks here or there more, it would be worth the time spent on a mini-site. I agree with RD, too, that it is also a gamble. Will it really work in Thai or Arabic or X language better than a parking page?

• Japanese domains make close to ZERO income parked.
• Japanese do not typein.
• Japanese search.
• Search engines don't include parking sites for very long.


So you suggest Japanese? Is that what you are doing? Honestly, the few hundred Russian and Ukraine domains I have are making the bulk of PPC for my x,xxx IDNs. I started too late to get fantastic Asian domains, so maybe that is why they languish. My Polish, Arabic, Spanish, etc. are getting views and clicks, but not enough when I compare them with my Cyrillic domains.

On the good side, I am finally seeing more PPC from IDNs than my ASCII. :)

blastfromthepast
22nd December 2006, 10:03 PM
The Russian domains are a different story.

Due to a high percentage of users having the Opera browser, you have a lot of real typin traffic from people typing in a word and pressing return, and landing on the .com by default.

Here is the ultimate "mini-site", jam packed with very little content, and a lot of ads and affiliates, but it seems completely natural. http://chicago.com/

rolf
22nd December 2006, 10:12 PM
woah, how to create that chicago site? looks nice

some sort of script?

does it rank well?

burnsinternet
22nd December 2006, 10:29 PM
Agreed, nice site.

You'll notice a nice mix of affiliates and banners, etc. However, my problem has been finding a good mix of affiliates with information in the languages I need. Not to mention that I don't speak or write Japanese....

woah, how to create that chicago site? looks nice

some sort of script?

does it rank well?

It just takes work and planning. Those are not too difficult to create in English language.

Wot
22nd December 2006, 11:48 PM
All I can say is that next year my plans revolve entirely around making real sites in the Thai market. And I know Olney has been site building since day one. Perhaps the real site builders are too busy making sites to make lots of noise in the forums. There is no doubt site building is an extremely time consuming business.


Hi DG, my first(more content to come), yet to be translated to Thai! although is on the way. Are you translating yourself or using local talent?

www.ท่าอากาศยานสุวรรณภูมิ.com

Bimbo
23rd December 2006, 06:05 AM
trop drole,
la bande de bras cassées !

touchring
23rd December 2006, 08:39 AM
Parking income from many domains is low, so I am just looking for a better way for now. I don't see mini-sites (mile-wide and inch-deep) as a permanent solution, but I need to start somewhere...


I think Burns brought up a valid point.

It will be a pain just to create 3 minisites in a language you do not know, let alone 3 full sites!

The proposed idea of choosing the best names with the highest traffic is a good one also.

My strategy right now is:

1. To select my better names, create minisites with a good site structure - you could use ND preview function to help you with the subpages.

2. Learn from experience (i found that dealing with accents is really a pain) optimize the ads (not using Wassi's all ads and no content method though), watch how Google reacts, monitor my SERPs and Adsense takings.

3. Decide a strategy on how to progress to a more complex version 2 - by hiring a native freelancer to add content or create a content management backend and hire native translators to just provide the text. Websites should be constantly evolving, contents added every 6 months or so to maintain SERPs.

That's all. :)


BTW, i'm looking for a PPC feed for adult names, many of my traffic names are adult in nature, does anyone here got any experience in this? I know Adsense prohibits adult content.