3 questions on our survival [Archive] - IDN Forums

filmlion

2nd January 2007, 07:32 PM

1. guys, is it possible that someone makes decision to take the idn domains away from domainers and give it to those who own the same domains in latin (ascii)? i mean if say they guy owns: vodka.com - will they give the right to get водка.com for the initial price (or will court go for this decision)? what do you think?

2. another question: i think this is more likely for .ru domains? since the decisions like that are more common in Russia, and it will make sense to all the current ascii.ru sites - it's logical...

3. and the final question: is there any chance that the russianidn.com domains would cost nothing because of some new development or decision? how good are the chances for that?

please answer like:
1. ..................
2. ..................
3. ..................

thanks.

thefabfive

2nd January 2007, 07:51 PM

1. Would the owner of car.com be entitled to coche.com (Spanish) or voiture.com (Italian)? No.

2. Who would get Москва.ru... moscow.ru, moskva.ru, or even mockba.ru?

3. Possible.

Rubber Duck

2nd January 2007, 07:54 PM

1. I don't think this possible with non-Latin names as they will not generally be confusingly similar. It what it looks like that is important with TMs not what it represents or sounds like.
2. I think it is possible that they may allocate dot RU on transliteration basis, but it is anyone's guess.
3. There is virtually no chance domains will be replaced with anything else. Dot RU might prove more popular than dot com but if Russia goes IDN before Dot RU is launched then that risk recedes greatly. I think there is no chance whatoever that Latin will be kept in preference to Cyrillic.

filmlion

2nd January 2007, 07:57 PM

1. clear - i guess the only case when it's possible is when it's a trademark - say: nokia.com нокия.com and idns in other languagues .com and even all other extensions - subject to local laws and decisions though.

2. Москва.ru... moscow.ru, moskva.ru, or even mockba.ru? yes, it's subject to the decision from the regulating body. the same story as it can happen with all trademark owners of: vodka - in russia. or is there only one?

3. what are the risks we have? how big are the risks?

Rubber Duck - #3. i agree. i think .ru will be more popular than .com in Russia for IDNs - but who knows how they decide with the extensions... it's clear that it will be transformed into native language too within some years - but what would be the method...? when we discussed this quesion with alphamale we thought that they probably make it happen with .ком (russian letters) equals to .com - i think, that would be great for us, quite logical, easy to implement, and they will make (not lose) a lot of money. however local goverment might insist in local language tlds... but that will ruin the internet - so i think will never happen. - the "decoding" method make more sense - but is too complicated - which would equal what? especially in the .ru (.ру) case. :)

555

2nd January 2007, 08:26 PM

Not in the format you asked since the questions have allready been answered :)

IF i got the picture right... IDN.RU will cost Over $1,000.00 USD to reg and even if you want to pay this you will have to show you have a 'concrete' connection to the industry via sunshine,sundown and rainy periods...
.RU = .ру and .py is for paraguay, the 'rumor' says they will either do .rf (рф) for russian federation or .rus (рус) But won't do .ru which is good since either of the other 2 option have 0 brand recognition and .com/net has its brand recognition worldwide - russia included

the above are all likely to happen and all will benefit russian idn.com/net holders imo.

thoughts and scenarios are welcome

dabsi

2nd January 2007, 08:29 PM

currently if you have x.com and x.fr is interested and if it's not a trade mark, x.fr will have to buy your x.com.

The same applies also for IDN within .com.

DABSI

filmlion

2nd January 2007, 08:34 PM

good points... i guess that means that we are on the right track... :))

since my questions are mostly clarified, i wonder, how much will prices for russianidn.com domains go up within 6 months, 1 year.. etc? any predictions? articles on this? what it depends on? how much are they selling for now? any stats? thanks.

alpha

2nd January 2007, 08:54 PM

.. i wonder, how much will prices for russianidn.com domains go up within 6 months, 1 year.. etc?...

hello again.

If we knew the answer to that, then people woudn't be buying or wouldn't be selling.

blastfromthepast

2nd January 2007, 09:11 PM

555

2nd January 2007, 09:20 PM

Price in 2005: $0.
Price in 2006: up to $2K
Price in 2007: up to $20K
Price in 2008: up to $200K
Price in 2009: first $2M sale

lol...if it only was that simple...

touchring

2nd January 2007, 09:56 PM

lol...if it only was that simple...

LOL, if that were the case, there won't be sellers. One zero every year. :p

filmlion

2nd January 2007, 09:58 PM

funny. well, i hope that's the case. :) buying my first batch of russian idn domains real soon. :)

touchring

2nd January 2007, 10:55 PM

currently if you have x.com and x.fr is interested and if it's not a trade mark, x.fr will have to buy your x.com.

The same applies also for IDN within .com.

DABSI

Also to add that generics can also be trademarked.

Anyone knows a cheap trademark service? Online app preferably.

Rubber Duck

2nd January 2007, 10:57 PM

Also to add that generics can also be trademarked.

Anyone knows a cheap trademark service? Online app preferably.

I am not convinced that this is in any way useful.

touchring

2nd January 2007, 11:16 PM

I am not convinced that this is in any way useful.

Maybe not for common law, but it's particularly useful for places like China where the law is rigid and not implicit - if someone trademarks Google before Google gets the trademark in China, Google cannot operate as Google in China.

There have been cases that American companies win, but only after years and multiple court cases, appeals, and maybe bribes to the judges involved.

Amazing? But that's how it works.

Rubber Duck

2nd January 2007, 11:21 PM

It's particularly useful for places like China where the law is explicit and not implicit - if someone trademarks Google before Google gets the trademark in China, Google cannot operate as Google in China.

There have been cases that American companies win, but only after years and multiple court cases, appeals, and maybe bribes to the judges involved.

Amazing? But that's how it works.

Well that may be so, but a Generic Term is a Generic Term and the chances are any TM would be worthless.

Furthermore, if the registration is in the US, I think you will find that that is where the UDRP would be held, as that is where the legal juristiction is.

555

2nd January 2007, 11:31 PM

We seen these discussions prior and been there...but...i.e Puma in whatever language...does the fact you think of Puma the shoes/clothes makes it a TM? i dont think so...IF you use this domain to sell shoes/clothes or surrounding products it surely impliments bad intensions and you will lose the domain but if you put up a small/big site dedicated to Puma's...where is the problem?

http://cyberechos.creteil.iufm.fr/cyber10/environ/puma/puma.JPG

filmlion

2nd January 2007, 11:56 PM

i like the example about puma :))) "very nice, hi 5" (in borat's style) :)))

555

3rd January 2007, 12:18 AM

The question is what about i.e Lada лада which again..imo it all comes to usage
(Lada is a car company but also a female name...or should i say it is a female name and also a car company)

http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/article/711/711738/borat-20060607053153666-000.jpg

touchring

3rd January 2007, 12:49 AM

Well that may be so, but a Generic Term is a Generic Term and the chances are any TM would be worthless.

Furthermore, if the registration is in the US, I think you will find that that is where the UDRP would be held, as that is where the legal juristiction is.

I think i wouldn't rely on that. Have you read about the game.co.uk case?

filmlion

3rd January 2007, 12:54 AM

still, we better be careful with TMs - there are so many great popular generic words available, why worry. :))
good advice: create a real website devoted to the subject (domain name) and you have a good chances to keep it even if a huge company tries to get it from you after getting a trademark for the word.

Drewbert

3rd January 2007, 02:06 AM

Well that may be so, but a Generic Term is a Generic Term and the chances are any TM would be worthless.

Bzzzt.

Generic, like "united", "tide", "budget", "virgin" ?

A generic word CAN be TM'ed.

If you have a Generic that HAS been TM'ed you have to be careful you don't use it commercially in a way that infringes TM(s).

Furthermore, if the registration is in the US, I think you will find that that is where the UDRP would be held, as that is where the legal juristiction is.

Nope. The UDRP is "held" in the jurisdiction of the UDRP provider the complainant decides they want to use.

The REGISTRAR location determines the court you can use for an APPEAL against a UDRP decision. Or the location that the complainant HAS to use to appeal a decision if the respondent wins.

Which is why choosing a registrar outside coporate friendly USA is a good idea (especially avoiding Florida - Moniker's location).

touchring

3rd January 2007, 02:43 AM

Bzzzt.

Generic, like "united", "tide", "budget", "virgin" ?

A generic word CAN be TM'ed.

If you have a Generic that HAS been TM'ed you have to be careful you don't use it commercially in a way that infringes TM(s).

Nope. The UDRP is "held" in the jurisdiction of the UDRP provider the complainant decides they want to use.

The REGISTRAR location determines the court you can use for an APPEAL against a UDRP decision. Or the location that the complainant HAS to use to appeal a decision if the respondent wins.

Which is why choosing a registrar outside coporate friendly USA is a good idea (especially avoiding Florida - Moniker's location).

Would it be possible to change registrar after the UDRP decision? If say i move the domain to a China registrar, so the complainant has to lodge the appeal in Chinese in a Chinese court?

Drewbert

3rd January 2007, 02:50 AM

Nope.

The name is locked by the registrar from the beginning of the UDRP, and you have a certain time to advise of an appeal, prior to them changing the WHOIS data to the complainant's.

555

3rd January 2007, 04:05 AM

Bzzzt.

Generic, like "united", "tide", "budget", "virgin" ?

A generic word CAN be TM'ed.

If you have a Generic that HAS been TM'ed you have to be careful you don't use it commercially in a way that infringes TM(s)

I understand even parking the 'generic' domain simular to the examples above will help you lose the name for the fact it will display ads related to the tm'ed industry.
my question is...is it necessary and 'worth' the time of making a 1 page site for each of these 'possible trademarks' obviously the page will display the 'other' option and not the tm'ed one , or what if it just is not hosted/blank or the last option is what if it just has a 'this domain is not for sale and under development' notice...

Thanks,
Michael.

touchring

3rd January 2007, 04:38 AM

Bzzzt.

Generic, like "united", "tide", "budget", "virgin" ?

A generic word CAN be TM'ed.

If you have a Generic that HAS been TM'ed you have to be careful you don't use it commercially in a way that infringes TM(s).

Say budget is a TM for an hotel chain, and i show ads using the keyword "budget" under the category finance, will i get penalized for showing finance and accounting related ads?

Drewbert

3rd January 2007, 05:34 AM

Hopefully not, but UDRP's are crap shoots, heavily weighted towards the TM holder, so no one can say anything is safe, for certain.

There's precedents going either way, and the partiies and the panel pick and choose those precendents that fit the outcome they're aiming for and ignore the ones that don't.

touchring

3rd January 2007, 06:16 AM