.cn or .jp

[touchring]

This has long been a conflict/dilemma in my mind, but the differences are as follows:

.cn
1. High risk.
2. Established end user market - chinese companies pay high prices for domains, this is well known.
3. Established local domain industry.
4. Low PPC / Unstable PPC company - Dopa.
5. Great upside for economic development (x5 in 15 years - assuming currency still fixed).
6. Local secondary buyers/resellers - plenty.
7. IDN vs search engine, unknown?

.jp
1. Low risk.
2. Unknown end user market.
3. Unknown local domain industry.
4. Very high PPC - higher than US / Good PPC company - ND.
5. Mature market (but improved growth recent 2 years).
6. Local secondary buyers/resellers - pls name me three of each.
7. IDN friendly search engine.

What do you guys/gals think? I'm especially keen on what Markits thinks as he is Chinese and invests a lot in Japanese names.

[seamo]

Your criteria almost equal each other out in my assessment Touch.

I'd say you're a winner either way ;)

I'm especially keen on what Markits thinks as he is Chinese and invests a lot in Japanese names.

C'mon Markits - what's your position? :)

[Prodigy]

Why are you comparing .cn versus .jp? Two different markets, why should you be conflicted?

If you have limited assets, then your question should be Chinese or Japanese IDNs.

it's a gTLD versus cTLD discussiong isnt it?

[touchring]

Why are you comparing .cn versus .jp? Two different markets, why should you be conflicted?

If you have limited assets, then your question should be Chinese or Japanese IDNs.

it's a gTLD versus cTLD discussiong isnt it?


Comparing languages in general, using cltd as analogy.

As a matter of fact, since i do not know which will take off better, so i'm vested in both languages, in almost equal numbers.

People say that this forum is too biased towards Japanese names. I do not agree entirely since the proponents of Chinese names have not been quieter than their Japanese name counterpart.

[Giant]

People say that this forum is too biased towards Japanese names. I do not agree entirely since the proponents of Chinese names have not been quieter than their Japanese name counterpart.

China has 10 times Japan's population, go figure it out.

[sarcle]

China has 10 times Japan's population, go figure it out.

Yes but if we are taking about economy and the ability to get your IDNs in the search engines, seems Japan has taken the lead. Japan's economy is second only to America's and their consumers on average spend twice the amount on disposable goods than do Americans.

China while I think it's a great investment in IDNs if just for the shear size of their population has several problems to overcome. First, the notorious firewall. Second, seems China has a habit of censoring many things from the search engines and Google helps them with this. These of course are problems when it comes to the very thing we are doing. Marketing IDNs to the Chinese people.

Meanwhile IDNs in Japanese are yanking top spots away from heavily SEOed and heavily advertised sites. This will get IDN noticed quicker to Japanese companies, end users, hint - "the ones with the money".

But the safe bet is to invest in all the languages you can. Diversify is the only way. There is no telling what the future holds. And China seems to be hell bent on getting IDN to be the only way.

[blastfromthepast]

.jp of course! Register your .jp domains here (http://jp-dom.com/).

[Giant]

Yes but if we are taking about economy and the ability to get your IDNs in the search engines, seems Japan has taken the lead. Japan's economy is second only to America's and their consumers on average spend twice the amount on disposable goods than do Americans.

China while I think it's a great investment in IDNs if just for the shear size of their population has several problems to overcome. First, the notorious firewall. Second, seems China has a habit of censoring many things from the search engines and Google helps them with this. These of course are problems when it comes to the very thing we are doing. Marketing IDNs to the Chinese people.

Meanwhile IDNs in Japanese are yanking top spots away from heavily SEOed and heavily advertised sites. This will get IDN noticed quicker to Japanese companies, end users, hint - "the ones with the money".

But the safe bet is to invest in all the languages you can. Diversify is the only way. There is no telling what the future holds. And China seems to be hell bent on getting IDN to be the only way.

What I really mean is if you can find 3 Japanese domainers on this forum you should expect to find 30 Chinese domainers on this forum.

As for the value of Japnese IDN vs Chinese IDN, here's my assessment:

-A top Japanese IDN probably will command more $ than the same-quality Chinese IDN.
-The quantity of Chinese IDNs to be needded is much larger than Japanese IDNs.

Don't be fooled by the GDP of Japan. The purchasing power of a Nation and the purchasing power of domain names of its citizens are 2 different things.

I have relatives in Tokyo, I visit Japan every often. An engineer in Japan don't earn more than an engineer in US. Everything in Japan is expensive. Japanese spend a lot on neccessities, and they eat out, spend on drinking, vacations a lot. They don't have a lot left (as you think) to spend on net purchasing.

FACTS: If 10% of China's population (= Japan's entire population) is considered "people with some money", they have more spare money (after necessities) to spend than the entire Japanese citizens (after necessities). This is my personal observation.

[touchring]

Yes but if we are taking about economy and the ability to get your IDNs in the search engines, seems Japan has taken the lead. Japan's economy is second only to America's and their consumers on average spend twice the amount on disposable goods than do Americans.

China while I think it's a great investment in IDNs if just for the shear size of their population has several problems to overcome. First, the notorious firewall. Second, seems China has a habit of censoring many things from the search engines and Google helps them with this. These of course are problems when it comes to the very thing we are doing. Marketing IDNs to the Chinese people.

Meanwhile IDNs in Japanese are yanking top spots away from heavily SEOed and heavily advertised sites. This will get IDN noticed quicker to Japanese companies, end users, hint - "the ones with the money".

But the safe bet is to invest in all the languages you can. Diversify is the only way. There is no telling what the future holds. And China seems to be hell bent on getting IDN to be the only way.


Yes, there are pros and cons, SEO itself is a very big advantage for .JP names. But official statistics and income figures can be misleading.

Take example, South korea's largest export market is now China, followed by the US, Japan comes third. And what does South korea export? Hyundais, Samsung, LG?? http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/EJ16Dg05.html

But the DNF people will ask: WTF? What disposable income can people earning $100 a year got?

Go figure out! Beats me as well. :)

Yes, i do invest in as many major languages i can get.

[Olney]

Forums aren't big in Japan because of 2channel. It's a huge old forum & the owner is being sued so much he just took off. If you mention forum, or BBS in Japan they immediately think of that site & that structure.

Also Giant is right China will need way more domains than Japan.

[rhys]

What I really mean is if you can find 3 Japanese domainers on this forum you should expect to find 30 Chinese domainers on this forum.

As for the value of Japnese IDN vs Chinese IDN, here's my assessment:

-A top Japanese IDN probably will command more $ than the same-quality Chinese IDN.
-The quantity of Chinese IDNs to be needded is much larger than Japanese IDNs.

Don't be fooled by the GDP of Japan. The purchasing power of a Nation and the purchasing power of domain names of its citizens are 2 different things.

I have relatives in Tokyo, I visit Japan every often. An engineer in Japan don't earn more than an engineer in US. Everything in Japan is expensive. Japanese spend a lot on neccessities, and they eat out, spend on drinking, vacations a lot. They don't have a lot left (as you think) to spend on net purchasing.

FACTS: If 10% of China's population (= Japan's entire population) is considered "people with some money", they have more spare money (after necessities) to spend than the entire Japanese citizens (after necessities). This is my personal observation.

I have to disagree though I lack complete facts on the matter. The purchasing power of someone in Japan is more than 4 times greater than the purchasing power of someone in the People's Republic at the current time. However, household savings in Japan remains higher than in the United States so one may argue they don't spend as much as Americans do on consumer goods as a percentage of their income, but the clear trend is toward greater spending.

On a more personal note, I know some engineers as Giant describes but I also know investment bankers, hedgefund owners, and several single women with nothing but money to sacrifice to mammon, our collective god.

[touchring]

I have to disagree though I lack complete facts on the matter.


I think not just yourself, but no one has complete facts on the matter.

But one thing, I've been to Japan once, and one cannot help but notice that the Japanese service industry is very labor intensive, from transport to retail to airport security, there are lots of people standing around on duty or just to greet you. Labor cost must be heavy.

This is also somewhat the case in small chinese cities or towns, but go to the major cities, one would be drowned in the sea of shoppers and can't find assistance or someone in uniform.

So the economic structure is very different. One is a service based economy, while the other is not.

[Rubber Duck]

Forums aren't big in Japan because of 2channel. It's a huge old forum & the owner is being sued so much he just took off. If you mention forum, or BBS in Japan they immediately think of that site & that structure.

Also Giant is right China will need way more domains than Japan.

Yes, if you consider each coastal province to be a new South Korea, you will be getting some concept of the scale of China.

[Giant]

However, household savings in Japan remains higher than in the United States so one may argue they don't spend as much as Americans do on consumer goods as a percentage of their income, but the clear trend is toward greater spending.


Why choose the Americans to compare? Americans spend more than they earn!

Mr. Bush is complaining the Chinese people are saving too much. The president of China agrees that too much savings is a concern.


On a more personal note, I know some engineers as Giant describes but I also know investment bankers, hedgefund owners, and several single women with nothing but money to sacrifice to mammon, our collective god.

The target of domain names or websites is the regular engineers, not bankers or some very rich people.

Let say a rich banker or CEO of Sony's earning is equal to the income of 100 engineers in China. If you plan to run an e-commerce website for clothings, would you target the 100 regular engineers or the banker and CEO of Sony? All I know is the chance that the rich banker or CEO of Sony would order a jacket from your website is close to ZERO.

If McDonald's target in China is bankers and CEOs, McDonald would have been closed long time ago.

[markits]

I'm especially keen on what Markits thinks as he is Chinese and invests a lot in Japanese names.

Sorry for late arrival. I do agree with seamo that you will be a winner either way. However, I personally am in favor of JP domains, simply from investment point of view. I agree that there are far more domainers in China than in Japan and the the end-using demand for domains will be higher in China too, yet I have the folowing reasons:

Currency exchange rate 1USD=8CNY
In China, 1CNY's purchasing power is perhaps equal to 1USD in America. A western domainer will be quite happy to earn an instant profit of $200USD from a $7 investment; equally, a Chinese domainer will be happy to Y200CNY profit, which is exactly $25. We have seen many Chinese domainers sold their domains between $20-50. This makes it hard to really make an American or Japanese standard profit from Chinese domains in Chinese market.

Competition
There are so many Chinese domainers around. They register everything, from true generic to brandable and TM terms, making it vrtually impossible to find any good domains. The situation is quite different for JP domains. I can still find good Japanese generic keywords to reg for .jp and .com, many having more than Y600 ($5) per click bid and ovt above 20k searches.

Revenue potential
I estimate that the average JP PPC bid is 20 times of CN PPC bid. The JP domains will show clear advantage once Japanese accepted IDN and start to type-in domains in the address bar. Right now, jp investers can make good money by developing.

to be continued..

[touchring]

We have seen many Chinese domainers sold their domains between $20-50


Nice, that's why i bought most of my chinese names at $20-$50. :p

Chinese ppl like to gamble, domains are to some extent, a form of gambling. Prices rise and fall. The trick is to buy low and sell high.

More buying opportunities lies ahead...

Btw, on a side issue, what do you think of the real estate bubble in China right now? There's also a bubble building up in the Shanghai Stock Market, which shot up 72.7% in 2006 (as a comparison, if you imagine the DJ shooting up by 9000 points in one year). Seems taht we are now living the world of bubbles. :)

[rhys]

Why choose the Americans to compare? Americans spend more than they earn!

Mr. Bush is complaining the Chinese people are saving too much. The president of China agrees that too much savings is a concern.



The target of domain names or websites is the regular engineers, not bankers or some very rich people.

Let say a rich banker or CEO of Sony's earning is equal to the income of 100 engineers in China. If you plan to run an e-commerce website for clothings, would you target the 100 regular engineers or the banker and CEO of Sony? All I know is the chance that the rich banker or CEO of Sony would order a jacket from your website is close to ZERO.

If McDonald's target in China is bankers and CEOs, McDonald would have been closed long time ago.

I'm just saying that because you happen to know an engineer who can't save money, doesn't mean that most Japanese don't save money. I also mentioned young women as a powerful group and you left them out of consideration. I wouldn't call the single female in her 20s an elite group!!!!! These are the bread and butter of Japan's consumer economy. Engineers may be where the money is in China but in Japan, it is mostly white collar workers - salarymen. And Japan, like China, is often criticized by the US for having too high a savings rate. So I cannot say who saves more in absolute amounts China or Japan.

Someday, China is bound to completely overtake Japan and the rest of the world, I agree the numbers are on their side. But today, the average wealth per person and the commercial infrastructure (adsense) is in place to make Japan a great bet.

[touchring]

Someday, China is bound to completely overtake Japan and the rest of the world, I agree the numbers are on their side. But today, the average wealth per person and the commercial infrastructure (adsense) is in place to make Japan a great bet.


Sounds logical. On the immediate outlook, JP is going to take off very quickly, especially with high XP penetration and low upgrade problems. Everything is proceeding for JP as most of us have expected. :)