Date of launch of IDN.IDN

[drbiohealth]

Does anyone have any realistic idea about the date of launch of IDN.IDN . 1 yr, 2 yrs.. Because if its like 5 yrs then regging names now would be just too taxing....opinions?

[sarcle]

Does anyone have any realistic idea about the date of launch of IDN.IDN . 1 yr, 2 yrs.. Because if its like 5 yrs then regging names now would be just too taxing....opinions?

Well for any sort of impact on the overall market it's going to have to be sometime within the next year.

We will know more after the next big ICANN meeting in March.

[thefabfive]

Some IDNs already receive traffic even without the .IDN. If you wait even a month there won't be much left. And I think there are alternatives to .IDN that people can implement in the meantime, like pull-down list of extensions to make it easier to input. Short answer, don't wait. In the last month alone names have gone from wide open to slim pickins.

Maybe some of the more in tune members know about the estimated launch date of IDN.IDN.

[alexd]

... sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly do you mean by IDN.IDN ???


Thanks


Alex

[thefabfive]

The .com or .net would be replaced by the foreign equivalent like, .ком in Russian. The domain IDN.ком (as an example) would be equivalent to IDN.com.

[IDNCowboy]

... sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly do you mean by IDN.IDN ???


Thanks


Alex
japanese characters.japanese characters etc


so ppl in russia can say _____.kom (their way of saying .com in russian)
.kom being the idn

[alexd]

... thanks for clearing that up for me. Its weird though, because last night, I was wondering if such a thing would happen where natives can type in the extension in their own languages, rather than the english .com, .net, etc

I think from a practicle point of view, this is the way forward with IDNs, and the type-in factor is bound to increase much more.

Thanks again.


Alex

[555]

Hi,

My question is , if one owns i.e фыв.com , once .idn is out in which ever format like .ком or .ru will the domain фыв.com will be "replaced" to the new ending or if i want to own what i now have in .com i have to re register domains under the .kom...


Thanks,

Michael

[thefabfive]

My question is , if one owns i.e фыв.com , once .idn is out in which ever format like .ком or .ru will the domain фыв.com will be "replaced" to the new ending or if i want to own what i now have in .com i have to re register domains under the .kom...

I believe the .ком would be mapped to the .com, ie. they would be the same. If you own the .com, you essentially own the .ком. The .ru extension may be mapped to .ру and then they would be the same thing.

Hope that was clear. :)

[idnowner]

Hi,

My question is , if one owns i.e фыв.com , once .idn is out in which ever format like .ком or .ru will the domain фыв.com will be "replaced" to the new ending or if i want to own what i now have in .com i have to re register domains under the .kom...


Thanks,

Michael

I'm sure it would be much the same as any new TLD. Instead of new .info, .biz, etc. TLDs, there would be one .IDN TLD for each implemented language. For example online.com in IDN.IDN in Japanese would be オンライン.会社 (where the extension .会社 is dot-Kaisha, or dot-company). I'd also be surprised if IDN.IDNs come out before 2008, however, it could be later, if there are any challenges from other countries or competing entities.

[Rubber Duck]

I'm sure it would be much the same as any new TLD. Instead of new .info, .biz, etc. TLDs, there would be one .IDN TLD for each implemented language. For example online.com in IDN.IDN in Japanese would be オンライン.会社 (where the extension .会社 is dot-Kaisha, or dot-company). I'd also be surprised if IDN.IDNs come out before 2008, however, it could be later, if there are any challenges from other countries or competing entities.

This is not really very helpful. ICANN are in the process on making a final decision on the implementation of IDN. The are effectively two solutions under consideration, neither of which involves the creation of new registries. Each language will only have one dot com registry and it will be the same dot com registry.

One solution that has been muted is to put IDN.IDN into the DNS Root servers. This is an acceptable solution for ccTLDs which effectively only require a single translation. However, Verisign are trying to adopt as solution using the DName substitution, which effectively means you have a mapping table for each registry that normalises the incoming traffic before it is resolved, so that it maps to the existing gTLDs. The way these are displayed on your browser will be an option that you select within the browser itself.

The IDN that you are registering now are going to be the ones that will actually be used. There is not going to a second phase of the IDN gold rush. This is the main event.

[idnowner]

The IDN that you are registering now are going to be the ones that will actually be used. There is not going to a second phase of the IDN gold rush. This is the main event.

Really? So, are you saying that because I have アスピリン.com (aspirin) it will also be resolved as アスピリン.会社 (or whatever they choose as the Japanese dot-com equivalent)? Or, are you saying that they would do away with .com and replace it with the .IDN TLD?

[kenne]

Really? So, are you saying that because I have アスピリン.com (aspirin) it will also be resolved as アスピリン.会社 (or whatever they choose as the Japanese dot-com equivalent)? Or, are you saying that they would do away with .com and replace it with the .IDN TLD?

Dave is saying the first. the second: replacing it; would not make much sense

[Rubber Duck]

Really? So, are you saying that because I have アスピリン.com (aspirin) it will also be resolved as アスピリン.会社 (or whatever they choose as the Japanese dot-com equivalent)? Or, are you saying that they would do away with .com and replace it with the .IDN TLD?

Yes, both forms of dot com will resolve to the same IP address, and many more besides.

You should not need to type in anything other than the domain name. I am on Firefox 1.07 and simply typing the domains works, although the extension still needs to be in Latin script.

[alexd]

another quick question regarding this.

Is there any possibility that they would also change the www that is typed in before the domain names ???

I know that usually you can just type in the name.extension and then go to a site, but sometimes, this is not always the case.


Alex

[kenne]

www is more like optional even right now. I'd think the server owners can opt to put anything (including IDN) there. is that right?

[idnowner]

Yes, both forms of dot com will resolve to the same IP address, and many more besides.

You should not need to type in anything other than the domain name. I am on Firefox 1.07 and simply typing the domains works, although the extension still needs to be in Latin script.

Okay - so if my .com is going to be equivalent to .会社, and someone's .net is going to be the same as .ネット, what happens to .jp - will there be a .IDN version to go with .jp?

[thefabfive]

www is more like optional even right now. I'd think the server owners can opt to put anything (including IDN) there. is that right?

Yes, I think you are correct. At the server level you can choose whether to require the www or not and whether to display the www or not. Don't know if that's the case for all servers because of my limited experience.

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, I think you are correct. At the server level you can choose whether to require the www or not and whether to display the www or not. Don't know if that's the case for all servers because of my limited experience.

The www. is a Channel one of many. If this is not included then most browsers now defaults to this channel.

[OldIDNer]

Do any official ccTLD registries currently offer IDN.idn?

Also, does anyone have a link to ICANNs proposed future IDN solution?

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[bramiozo]

What's the point in going after idn.idn if the latin .xxx will resolve to the same IP ?

.com <-> .idn
.net <->.idn
.org <->.idn
.info <-> .idn
.biz <-> .idn

Right ?

[OldIDNer]

So no official ccTLD registry is offering IDN.idn? Only alternative "registries" correct?

How solid is .com <-> .idn? Is this definitey going to happen? This will happen with ccTLDS too?

Any ICANN links regarding this?

I'm asking all this for research purposes. Thanks in advance.

[rhys]

Okay - so if my .com is going to be equivalent to .会社, and someone's .net is going to be the same as .ネット, what happens to .jp - will there be a .IDN version to go with .jp?

I believe in another thread somewhere back, someone else mentioned that .jp would be .日本. But don't know if that was based on knowledge or just assumption.

[bramiozo]

At present I think there's a company who has been "advocating" the use of these .idn's but that's specifically for China, you need their plug-in to view the names and they're regged seperately from the .com's.

[OldIDNer]

Ok I see. Thanks bramiozo.

Seems like this has the backing of CNNIC:

http://www.i-dns.net/newsroom/news/OL050427-01.html.en

Will they just drop them and go with ICANN .com <-> .idn?

Thanks.

[sarcle]

Ok I see. Thanks bramiozo.

Seems like this has the backing of CNNIC:

http://www.i-dns.net/newsroom/news/OL050427-01.html.en

Will they just drop them and go with ICANN .com <-> .idn?

Thanks.


This is the link. (Scroll down to page 25)
Verisigns proposal.
http://icann.org/announcements/dname-white-paper-verisign-17nov05.pdf

[OldIDNer]

Cool, thanks. I guess CNNIC will follow ICANN though those people who regged CNNIC approved non- ICANN idn.idn will be in an uproar I imagine. Unless they use different extensions for the .idn. That should be interesting.

Do you have a link to ICANNs proposal I think regarding putting the names in the root somehow? Thanks.

[Rubber Duck]

This seems to be a topic that gets revisited a lot.

I hope, there is now a general understanding that IDN.IDN will only be a functionality improvement for the domains from existing registries, rather than the usual red-herring of there being a proliferation of dot com look a likes!

[idnowner]

This seems to be a topic that gets revisited a lot.


Because there is still a lot of misunderstanding about the plans and eventual deployment of IDN.IDNs.

A few things I'm not clear on...

For IDN.jp, rhys said he recalled from a previous thread that .jp may become .日本. Is that true? If so, that would make sense.

Dave - you said, "There is not going to be a second phase of the IDN gold rush. This is the main event." So as the owner of アスピリン.com, I would also own アスピリン.会社 ? I think that's what you already said, is that correct? And if the answer is yes, that leads to some other questions...

When someone registers an IDN, would you register IDN.com, or IDN.IDN, or could you register either one, and the other is included by default? If both versions are considered "the same," then it's almost like getting two-for-one, which would be a HUGE plus for IDN.com registrants.

What about an overlapping Kanji domains that means the same in Chinese and in Japanese? Since there can only be one unique KANJI-IDN.com, would you also have the rights to the identical (Chinese) KANJI-IDN.公司 AND (Japanese) KANJI-IDN.会社?

[Rubber Duck]

Because there is still a lot of misunderstanding about the plans and eventual deployment of IDN.IDNs.

A few things I'm not clear on...

For IDN.jp, rhys said he recalled from a previous thread that .jp may become .日本. Is that true? If so, that would make sense.


The .jp will be Aliased with the Kanji.


Dave - you said, "There is not going to be a second phase of the IDN gold rush. This is the main event." So as the owner of アスピリン.com, I would also own アスピリン.会社 ? I think that's what you already said, is that correct? And if the answer is yes, that leads to some other questions...

Yes

When someone registers an IDN, would you register IDN.com, or IDN.IDN, or could you register either one, and the other is included by default? If both versions are considered "the same," then it's almost like getting two-for-one, which would be a HUGE plus for IDN.com registrants.

The record held at the Registry will be Punycode. com, but IDN.IDN. will resolve to Punycode.com, for the top level of gTLDs the dot com will be Aliased in many different ways.

What about an overlapping Kanji domain that means the same in Chinese and in Japanese? Since there can only be one unique KANJI-IDN.com, would you also have the rights to the identical (Chinese) KANJI-IDN.公司 AND (Japanese) KANJI-IDN.会社?[/QUOTE]

The Chinese user would use the Chinese Alias, the Japanese user the Japaneser Alias. There will only be one dot com.

[555]

Hi,

Dave, thanks for the explanation in the post above, so if i understand correctly , this .idn "rule" will also work on russian .com/.net as well? and if yes i assume any language .idn - greek - hungarian etc etc...

- How do you know icann or the body that regulates idn's wont just add i.e .kom for russian idn's and will have to register new names? (hope wont happen and doesnt make sense but do we know wont happen for sure?)


Thanks,
Michael

[Rubber Duck]

Hi,

Dave, thanks for the explanation in the post above, so if i understand correctly , this .idn "rule" will also work on russian .com/.net as well? and if yes i assume any language .idn - greek - hungarian etc etc...

Yes, each script (possibly language) will have its own dot com Alias. Verisign have already effectively asked for .KOM so it is inconceivable that they would not get it, as there is no existing .KOM registry. In view of how reluctant ICANN have been to permit new registries, it would be difficult to see how a dot KOM registry would be approved in the face of sustained opposition from Verisign. Also, it should be remembered that dot com does not belong to Verisign, ultimately it is an ICANN asset, which they won't wish to diminish.

- How do you know icann or the body that regulates idn's wont just add i.e .kom for russian idn's and will have to register new names? (hope wont happen and doesnt make sense but do we know wont happen for sure?)


ICANN is responsible for the approval of all Names that go into the Root. Following the workshops, it is clear that no influential parties are seriously consider such an option, indeed it runs counter the whole ethos of IDN. It is also not in ICANNs interest to do this.


Thanks,
Michael[/QUOTE]

[idnowner]

The record held at the Registry will be Punycode. com, but IDN.IDN. will resolve to Punycode.com, for the top level of gTLDs the dot com will be Aliased in many different ways.

What about an overlapping Kanji domain that means the same in Chinese and in Japanese? Since there can only be one unique KANJI-IDN.com, would you also have the rights to the identical (Chinese) KANJI-IDN.公司 AND (Japanese) KANJI-IDN.会社?

The Chinese user would use the Chinese Alias, the Japanese user the Japaneser Alias. There will only be one dot com.

Dave,

For overlapping kanji domains, I am not clear on your answer, so let me use an example....

I own 筒.com (tube.com / xn--mxz.com) It means the same thing in Japanese and Chinese (traditional and simplified). If the IDN.IDN would resolve the the punycode.com version...

would 筒.会社 (Japanese) resolve to xn--mxz.com?
would 筒.公司 (Chinese) also resolve to xn--mxz.com?

[OldIDNer]

It would certainly make the registries some more money. Is the multilingual idn.idn in China widely used? Are there any other similar arrangements in other countries (where the main internet governing body/registry endorsed an idn.idn)?

[Rubber Duck]

Dave,

For overlapping kanji domains, I am not clear on your answer, so let me use an example....

I own 筒.com (tube.com / xn--mxz.com) It means the same thing in Japanese and Chinese (traditional and simplified). If the IDN.IDN would resolve the the punycode.com version...

would 筒.会社 (Japanese) resolve to xn--mxz.com?
would 筒.公司 (Chinese) also resolve to xn--mxz.com?

Yes, that is my understanding.

It would certainly make the registries some more money. I'm more worried about how for example CNNIC explains to current idn.idn holders that the people who own verisgn .coms will have the .idn resolve to them and that the .idn that CNNIC apparently gave its blessing too was just make believe or will not be "THE" .idn commonly used. Unless of course there was some fine print.

Is the multilingual idn.idn in China widely used? Are there any other similar arrangements in other countries (where the main internet governing body/registry endorsed an idn.idn)?

The only multilingual IDN that is widely used is the Alias for ccTLD which would be unaffected. This problem has only really arisen in China, but China is now actively seeking full integration with an ICANN solution.

CNNIC rules say that can do as they please. Instead of resolving to dot com they will simply resolve to .com.cn.

[OldIDNer]

Oh ok, thanks Dwrixon.

[idnowner]

I own 筒.com (tube.com / xn--mxz.com) It means the same thing in Japanese and Chinese (traditional and simplified). If the IDN.IDN would resolve the the punycode.com version...

would 筒.会社 (Japanese) resolve to xn--mxz.com?
would 筒.公司 (Chinese) also resolve to xn--mxz.com?


Yes, that is my understanding.


Dave, I hope you're right. That would add *INCREDIBLE* value to the current IDNs. I believe some people avoided IDN.com domains, several years ago, because they'd rather go with IDN.IDN, whenever they may be introduced. So it would seem, they may never see that opportunity.

If you find any new supporting information as to the implementation of IDN.IDN, please post it. I have seen some supporting documentation
(http://icann.org/announcements/dname-white-paper-verisign-17nov05.pdf), - not sure if this document means it is going to happen - but I'd like to see it written in stone (better yet, implemented).

[OldIDNer]

It seems that this article:

http://www.i-dns.net/newsroom/news/OL050427-01.html.en

is referring to the CNNIC approved idn.idns as .com (company/commercial?) and .net (networking), not versions of .cn, the ccTLD.

Though I guess this could be thought of referring to .com.cn and .net.cn.


Its good that CNNIC is working with ICANN. There should be consistency.

[gammascalper]

It seems that this article:

http://www.i-dns.net/newsroom/news/OL050427-01.html.en

is referring to the CNNIC approved idn.idns as .com (company/commercial?) and .net (networking), not versions of .cn, the ccTLD.

Oh, maybe this is .com.cn and .net.cn then?

If they resolve them to the .com.cn, what happens to registrants of .com.cn and their sites, who have held their names for a long time? Do they get the .idn (non-verisign) names? What if the .idn is owned by someone different than the .com.cn? It seems that .com.cn ownership should trump since those are older registrations (or maybe they could go by reg dates).

There's no apparent conflict as .com.cn would become .IDN.IDN

i.e. .公司.中国

[Rubber Duck]

Dave, I hope you're right. That would add *INCREDIBLE* value to the current IDNs. I believe some people avoided IDN.com domains, several years ago, because they'd rather go with IDN.IDN, whenever they may be introduced. So it would seem, they may never see that opportunity.

If you find any new supporting information as to the implementation of IDN.IDN, please post it. I have seen some supporting documentation
(http://icann.org/announcements/dname-white-paper-verisign-17nov05.pdf), - not sure if this document means it is going to happen - but I'd like to see it written in stone (better yet, implemented).

It would seem that we are getting very close to do this. ICANN knows that it has to deliver or the arguments over who controls ICANN will boil over and the whole internet risk being thrown into Anarchy. China has done a enough to show that Independant Internets with independant names systems is more than a theortical possibility. It knows that in order to maintain the integrity of the World Wide Web and Email systems it has to act in the best interests of the wider world.

There has been a lot of technical and political issues to resolve to get to IDN.IDN. Initiallly there was some lack of clarity over whether gTLDs would be unique and universal and some parties were interested in creating as many conflicting registries as possilbe in order to bolster their income. That argument was effectively put to bed a long-time ago. More recently the debate has focused on whether the Aliasing would be done at the level of the browser or in the DNS root. Initially, it was assumed that it was much more technically feasible to do it with the Browser, but essentially Microsoft's intransigence at that level have killed that idea stone dead. It was also clear that certainty of resolution would be much lower if the resolution of the top level was done as Browser Level.

It is now fairly clear that it is technically possible to implement this at the DNS Root through the DName solution. Verisign are commited to doing this and as they still operate much of the critical hardware involved, if they say it can be done then it is reasonable to assume that is the case. I would be very surprised if this solution is not adopted, as it also opens virtually endless other possibilities, which include Aliasing second level country codes with Top Level IDN and the option of creating a Universal Keyword System.

Yes, I think it is clear that if the wider domaining community had a full grasp of what is happening then, it would be just about impossible to register anything of real valuable right now. Of course, those of us who have larger portfolios have a vested interest in getting the market up and running. Those who has yet to invest would be well advised not to sit on their hands. The total value of IDNs is going to be proportional to the markets that they serve and the degree of dependence of those markets. Asia will be almost entirely dependent on IDN, and it will eventually represent half of the world's economy, so the value is immeasurable.

A further consideration is that the whilst dot com is just about saturated at 50M registration in ASCII, it could easily expand to 500M IDN registrations because of the vast variety of scripts and hence characters that can be generated. There will effectively be no great need for a proliferation of other extensions in the immediate future.

My view is that this is a once in a life-time opportunity. I have positioned myself to exploit it to the maximum and would strongly advise others to the same.

[OldIDNer]

There's no apparent conflict as .com.cn would become .IDN.IDN

i.e. .公司.中国


Ok, I think I understand.

Non-Verisign IDN.IDN (in China) <-> IDN.com.cn or IDN.IDN.IDN

And the Verisign IDN.com <-> (Verisign) IDN.IDN

Is that the thinking?

[idnowner]

It would seem that we are getting very close to do this.
...
My view is that this is a once in a life-time opportunity. I have positioned myself to exploit it to the maximum and would strongly advise others to the same.

Dave - You have provided some extremely good insight and knowledge on the subject. If IDN.com evolves as you think (which sounds logical, possible and most likely), then the potential of these names can't be overstated.

[Rubber Duck]

Ok, I think I understand.

Non-Verisign IDN.IDN (in China) <-> IDN.com.cn or IDN.IDN.IDN

And the Verisign IDN.com <-> (Verisign) IDN.IDN

Is that the thinking?

Yes, that is much as I would see it.

[dave_5]

Hi,

Great posts here!

i-dns.net has been registering IDN.IDN for some time now (requires a plug-in).

Will that cause duplicates? I own a Verisign IDN.com and someone else an i-dns.net IDN.IDN.

Will that mean the end of I-dns.net?

Thanks!

Dave

[gammascalper]

Will that mean the end of I-dns.net?

Thanks!

Dave

Probably. This thread covers that discussion:

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/717-exactly-how-would-the-new-chinese-%5Bidn-tld%5Ds-be-accomodated%3F.html?highlight=idn.idn

[OldIDNer]

Thanks again Dwrixon and everyone. I appreciate it.

[555]

Hi,

In one of the replies here Dave said he is using Firefox and just by entering the domain with no extension at all he gets to the site...i tried with Firefox and what happaned was i.e i entered one of my domains мм and got to a site under mmtv.bg and when tried the word סקס also got to some other site even though both мм.com and סקס.com are both working sites...


Can someone explain more on that topic? is it maybe that sites i got to are established rather then new site/parked site?

Also, if someone can link to any info concerning the icann march meeting...


Thanks,

Michael.

[yanni]

Hi,

In one of the replies here Dave said he is using Firefox and just by entering the domain with no extension at all he gets to the site...i tried with Firefox and what happaned was i.e i entered one of my domains мм and got to a site under mmtv.bg and when tried the word סקס also got to some other site even though both мм.com and סקס.com are both working sites...


Can someone explain more on that topic?

Michael.

Firefox will take you to the first site listed on google under the specific keyword if you don't enter the extention.

If you go to Google and put in мм, mmtv.bg is the top listed site.

[555]

I understand, Thanks Yanni ,

in that case and regardless of that case...where do we find out the real idn advantages - SEO wise...if any?

i mean...would anyone knoweldgable agree to the statment that if we use i.e autosales.com chinese or any other language idn and put up a new site with minimal+ content will there be a ranking advantage due to the fact the name is 100% matching the keyword in the searched language?

also, i think better if used a 1word idn rather then 2 even for that example?

and last, if anyone has a sample for it (i do remember the .jp sample) though a diffrent member mentioned it is a great content rich site as it is...so maybe less worthy samples?

Thanks,

Michael
(we need to start a support group for idn buing addicts) :)