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rhys
13th February 2007, 03:21 PM
Couched within a negative article as the press like to do, is affirmation of the logic behind IDNs appeared on gendai.net today.

http://gendai.net/?m=view&g=wadai&c=050&no=17506

日本語ドメイン急増 予想される売買トラブル


 ホームページの住所を示すドメイン。Gendai.Net/など、希望する文字列が空いていれば早い者勝ちで登録できるため、海外では商号などの固有名詞を登録して高額で取引する「ドメインビジネス」や名前のドメインを登録された有名人とのトラブルが絶えない。このドメインの日本語登録が本格化するため、国内でもこの種のトラブルが増えそうだ。
 先月、韓国ソウル中央地裁は、映画俳優「ツイスト・キム」と同じ名前のドメインでアダルトサイトを運営していた会社に罰金1000万ウォン(約120万円)を支払うよう判決を下した。
 トラブルはこうした「本人の名誉を棄損した」ケースだけではない。ドメイン売買の第1号は1995年、米国の大学生マクドナルド君が取得したmcdonalds.Comをハンバーガーのマクドナルド社が買い取ったケースだ。解決金額は公表されていないが、億単位の金が動いたとか、地域のすべての小学校にパソコンの寄付が条件だったとかいわれている。
 最近では松坂大輔のドメイン名が買い取られたケースもある。巨額の金が動くためネット上でドメイン・オークションまで開かれている。
 日本国内ではドメイントラブルや売買が少なかったが、これからは増えそうだ。IT関係者が言う。
「90年代までドメイン名には英数字しか使えず、2001年に日本語ドメインが導入されたもののウェブブラウザーの環境が整ってませんでした。しかし、昨年11月にマイクロソフト社のエクスプローラーのバージョン7が日本語ドメインを標準サポートするようになり、新発売のVistaもOK。今後は爆発的に増えるはず。当然、あらゆる日本語が取得され、トラブルや売買が予想されます」
 他人に取得される前に商号や個人名の日本語ドメインを取得しておくほうがよさそう。ちなみに末尾は「.Jp」にしておくのがベター。日本独自の紛争処理の救済機関があるからだ。

You can run it through google translate to get the gist of it. But as a summary: Japan can expect to have an increasing amount of difficulty with domain names now. The article runs through the concept of trademark infringement with the mcdonalds.com case and more recently involving the case of a korean actor named "Twist Kim" who won an action against a porn site using his namesake domain. Historically, there has been little trouble regarding domain names in Japan but now according to IT related people this is set to drastically increase. "Through the 90's domain names were in English and numbers only, in 2001 Japanese language domains were introduced but the browser environment was not ready for it. Last year in November, MS released a Japanese version of Internet Explorer 7 which supports Japanese domain names. The newly released Vista OS also supports Japanese domain names. From this point on we expect an explosive increase in registrations. Naturally, as Japanese domain names get taken we can forecast trouble." So you had better register your related domain names as soon as possible before someone else does. It would be better for you to register .jp. because there is a conflict resolution system unique to Japan available for those who do.

markits
13th February 2007, 03:29 PM
It would be better for you to register .jp. because there is a conflict resolution system unique to Japan available for those who do.

This is statement is self conflicting:

If a conflict resolution system unique to Japan exists, they should reg more .coms to protect .them.

If a .jp is registered, the "conflict resolution system unique to Japan" will have no use.

Anyway, nice news and thanks for sharing!

sarcle
13th February 2007, 03:30 PM
It would be better for you to register .jp. because there is a conflict resolution system unique to Japan available for those who do.

Translation: We will yank all those .jp's from those greedy westerner hands; something we can't do with .com.


But great find. Nice to see the Japanese are catching on.

thegenius1
13th February 2007, 03:33 PM
Translation: We will yank all those .jp's from those greedy westerner hands; something we can't do with .com.


But great find. Nice to see the Japanese are catching on.

I think your translation is incorrect !

rhys
13th February 2007, 03:46 PM
I think your translation is incorrect !

I think that sarcle is translating "between the lines" :p

This is statement is self conflicting:

If a conflict resolution system unique to Japan exists, they should reg more .coms to protect .them.

If a .jp is registered, the "conflict resolution system unique to Japan" will have no use.

Anyway, nice news and thanks for sharing!

I agree it is a weak argument if one thinks about it. However, it is one that is likely to appeal very strongly to Japanese people. It is also not at all a bad argument if you are looking for a strong defense for any claims against your domain name (like from a western company). For example, if your company name is "Pink House" and there is an American company also named "Pink House".

sarcle
13th February 2007, 03:58 PM
I think that sarcle is translating "between the lines" :p


Very true. I'm translating from a translated article, so I hope I'm wrong. I've got some really decent .jp's I'd be pissed if they were taken. But when they are already stating (conflict resolution system) - it makes me a little jittery.

markits
13th February 2007, 04:12 PM
I agree it is a weak argument if one thinks about it. However, it is one that is likely to appeal very strongly to Japanese people. It is also not at all a bad argument if you are looking for a strong defense for any claims against your domain name (like from a western company). For example, if your company name is "Pink House" and there is an American company also named "Pink House".
I am thinking otherwise. The majority of domains will be regged by ordinary domainers, not end-users. If one fears that his reg subjects to high risk of losing ownership for nothing, he will perhaps seek different ext options.

sarcle
13th February 2007, 04:19 PM
I agree it is a weak argument if one thinks about it. However, it is one that is likely to appeal very strongly to Japanese people. It is also not at all a bad argument if you are looking for a strong defense for any claims against your domain name (like from a western company). For example, if your company name is "Pink House" and there is an American company also named "Pink House".

This is not what I'm worried about. You don't think Japanese companies are going to go after generics like companies do here in "reverse domain hijacking"?

Let's just say for the sake of argument I own 職業.jp (http://www.職業.jp/) there is a company out there that uses this word within their business name and they come after me. How in the hell am I supposed to defend that in a Japanese court? That's my concern. And mark my words it will happen, not necessarily to any of mine or yours but there will be companies looking to go after foreign owned generics.

markits
13th February 2007, 04:23 PM
Let's just say for the sake of argument I own 職業.jp (http://www.職業.jp/) there is a company out there that uses this word within their business name and they come after me. How in the hell am I supposed to defend that in a Japanese court?
Ouch!

sarcle
13th February 2007, 04:40 PM
Ouch!

Yeah like I said it was just an example. I have no idea if there is a Japanese company that uses this within their name and I expect to build a site on this name but what am I to do if a company decides they want this name? What are my rights? I think my "droit" is very limited in how the system is set-up.

But you're right it will be a big "OUCH" if companies are planning on doing this. Especially if they know the power of generic terms and I'm sure they do.

blastfromthepast
13th February 2007, 04:51 PM
No worries. See you in Western Samoa!

Explorer
13th February 2007, 05:03 PM
Yeah like I said it was just an example. I have no idea if there is a Japanese company that uses this within their name and I expect to build a site on this name but what am I to do if a company decides they want this name? What are my rights? I think my "droit" is very limited in how the system is set-up.

But you're right it will be a big "OUCH" if companies are planning on doing this. Especially if they know the power of generic terms and I'm sure they do.

Maybe that's why .com should be worth more than .jp or .cn or .ru.

sarcle
13th February 2007, 05:04 PM
Maybe that's why .com should be worth more than .jp or .cn or .ru.

This is exactly what I am saying. We have a much better chance of defending our .coms than we do our cctlds. And this article made that very clear.

Rubber Duck
13th February 2007, 05:19 PM
This is precisely why from the outset speculation has focus on dot com.

I think those with dot WS, however, are safe enough.

rhys
13th February 2007, 05:25 PM
It is difficult to say at this point. We need to confirm how this dispute resolution system works exactly. We also need to understand whether or not generic terms are defensible under this system. We also need to understand whether or not domains+ext can be filed as trademarks (as they cannot under US law).

Again this is not China. There is well established IP protection in Japan. And along with that comes clearer definition of what is NOT unique IP. I wouldn't panic.

Maybe that's why .com should be worth more than .jp or .cn or .ru.

Well, worth more to US as domainers, but perhaps not worth more to end users. We should be clear.

sarcle
13th February 2007, 05:27 PM
I think those with dot WS, however, are safe enough.

:rolleyes:


I wouldn't panic.


Not panicked, just deeply concerned.

rhys
13th February 2007, 05:28 PM
I am thinking otherwise. The majority of domains will be regged by ordinary domainers, not end-users. If one fears that his reg subjects to high risk of losing ownership for nothing, he will perhaps seek different ext options.

Unless the system protects you expressly from foreign domainers.

seamo
13th February 2007, 05:31 PM
I think those with dot WS, however, are safe enough.
Let's hope...I'll have the whole bleedin' government after me otherwise! :o

blastfromthepast
13th February 2007, 05:35 PM
Unless the system protects you expressly from foreign domainers.

Why would it be different this time?

rhys
13th February 2007, 05:40 PM
Read this guys and let's discuss - this is the .jp dispute policy

http://www.nic.ad.jp/doc/jpnic-00877.html

http://www.nic.ad.jp/doc/jpnic-00876.html

seamo
13th February 2007, 06:00 PM
Read this guys and let's discuss - this is the .jp dispute policy
A cursory read through doesn't seem to present ...a conflict resolution system unique to Japan to me.

If the panel is impartial, the strength of any case will ultimately fall upon the same arguments as always -

1. the manner in which the subject domain name(s) is /
are identical or confusingly similar to any trademark
and other indication in which the Complainant has
rights or legitimate interests; and

2. why the Registrant should be considered as having no
rights or legitimate interests in respect of the
subject domain name(s);

3. why the domain name(s) should be considered as having
been registered or being used for in bad faith (unfair
purpose).

It is still up to the complainant to

viii. Specify any mark(s) such as trademark(s) and other
indication(s) on which the complaint is based, and
describe the nature and content of the goods or services,
if any, with which the mark or indication is used

Time for all those with heavy .jp investment to brush up on their knowledge of Japanese brands...

Explorer
13th February 2007, 07:05 PM
A cursory read through doesn't seem to present to me.

If the panel is impartial, the strength of any case will ultimately fall upon the same arguments as always -



It is still up to the complainant to



Time for all those with heavy .jp investment to brush up on their knowledge of Japanese brands...

A small group of smart local businessman would gather support from trademark owners and media execs, present idn.jp holders and website statistics (most generics would probably be owned by foreigners and sites are either parked or semi-developed) to the registry and lobby for a change to require a local presence to be consistent with .co.jp requirements. Simple as that.

thegenius1
13th February 2007, 09:30 PM
A small group of smart local businessman would gather support from trademark owners and media execs, present idn.jp holders and website statistics (most generics would probably be owned by foreigners and sites are either parked or semi-developed) to the registry and lobby for a change to require a local presence to be consistent with .co.jp requirements. Simple as that.

Not True , most .com's are owned by foreigners , but Not JP's

"Hotta said that IDNs are gaining widespread acceptance with Japan’s .jp extension. He noted that since Microsoft announced in December 2004 that the IDN enabled Internet Explorer 7 browser was coming, the number of .jp IDNs registered jumped from 40,000 to over 125,000 today. He added that the IDN.jp segment is growing at 10% annually with a renewal rate above 80% (and as high as 90% among Japanese citizens)."

http://dnjournal.com/articles/events/domainfestglobal2007-page2.htm

sarcle
13th February 2007, 09:34 PM
Not True , most .com's are owned by foreigners , but Not JP's

renewal rate above 80% (and as high as 90% among Japanese citizens)."

http://dnjournal.com/articles/events/domainfestglobal2007-page2.htm

Yes the renewal rate is 90% among the Japanese Domain holders but that doesn't mean 90% are Japanese. There isn't a statistic to prove how many foreigners and how many natives actually own .jps.

alpha
13th February 2007, 09:34 PM
A small group of smart local businessman would gather support from trademark owners and media execs, present idn.jp holders and website statistics (most generics would probably be owned by foreigners and sites are either parked or semi-developed) to the registry and lobby for a change to require a local presence to be consistent with .co.jp requirements. Simple as that.

if it ever came to that i'd just give them all to one of our Japanese resident idners - theres no way i'd just give em to some greedy b***ard reverse hijack SWAT team

or maybe buy a property in Japan :p

thegenius1
13th February 2007, 09:45 PM
Yes the renewal rate is 90% among the Japanese Domain holders but that doesn't mean 90% are Japanese. There isn't a statistic to prove how many foreigners and how many natives actually own .jps.

Sarcle they guy obviously has the statistics , but even if he didn't and posted that , I and many others have been in the JP trenches , and im almost 100% sure that his observation is right on the money.

Thats almost like saying that the Koreans don't own a large majority of Korean IDN's if you been there you see they do. And if you approach most of them to buy a domain expect to hear hi xx,xxx - xxx,xxx

sarcle
13th February 2007, 09:49 PM
Sarcle they guy obviously has the statistics , but even if he didn't and posted that , I and many others have been in the JP trenches , and I'm almost 100% sure that his statistic is right on the money.

I'm not debating that 90% of Japanese Domain holders are renewing their domains. I can agree with that.

But until you show me the statistics of how many Japanese people hold .jps vs. Foreign owned .jps. It's just speculation on who own's more.

thegenius1
13th February 2007, 10:02 PM
I'm not debating that 90% of Japanese Domain holders are renewing their domains. I can agree with that.

But until you show me the statistics of how many Japanese people hold .jps vs. Foreign owned .jps. It's just speculation on who own's more.

Thats cool , but im going to take My own eyes and Mr. Hir0 H0tta's word on this one

rhys
14th February 2007, 03:18 AM
Time to whip out my Japanese name I guess.

blastfromthepast
14th February 2007, 03:42 AM
prepare money to pay japanese lawyers to defend them!!! so dont bother me dude. japanese are nice but dont bother when u dont even know the language or u dont even live in Tokyo. Im nice but dont go too far...
 
these kind of registered domains will do very bad reputation to idn domaining. If you know Japan, you know weekly scandal magazines, some newspapers or famous sites like 2ch.net love to make scandals out of things like these, even if he has ads and not spoofing site, they will say "chinese guy wants to confuse japanese bank customers, be careful, bla bla bla", believe me is like that. Banks got a lot of money, they can pass information to journalists about "evil" domainers registering their company names and then nobody wants to jeopardize their reputation with "domainers". I want famous domainers forum in Japan, this news on bad hands is very bad reputation for all.

As cybersquatting of japanese trademarks affects me and all of us, i complain. Anything else i help and support. It is advice to do only the best reputation to idn domains, not being bad person.

rhys
14th February 2007, 05:26 AM
I flew through a list of top keywords tonight on the .jp whois to see who owns what and the conclusion I come to is loosely that about 20% of the words are reserved, 25% of the words are owned by people with japanese names and addresses, 20% are owned by japanese companies big or small, and 35% are owned by folks I gather are foreigners (and my name came up four or five times :) ).

Though it is quick and dirty, I'm impressed with that distribution. Actually, it is better weighted toward Japanese than I would have thought.

Olney
14th February 2007, 05:44 AM
I've been going through .jps whois for one yeah I check the whois for everything I have interest in. Many of the high quality premiums were registered on launch day by Japanese & held. Those that slipped along the way were mainly picked up by Japanese.

If you can find stats on jp Domain, you'll find out about what percentage of jps are registered by foreigners. Other companies do offer dot jps with an English interface but at $70 to $140 a pop I wouldn't expect them to register massive amounts.

Yeah Rhys your name comes up about at least twice a week for me.

Recently I am getting more & more Japanese asking me about domains (via social networks)

seamo
14th February 2007, 08:12 AM
Recently I am getting more & more Japanese asking me about domains (via social networks)
So what is the feeling you are getting from these enquiries Olney?

Are international domainers at risk of a -

very bad reputation to idn domaining. If you know Japan, you know weekly scandal magazines, some newspapers or famous sites like 2ch.net love to make scandals out of things like these, even if he has ads and not spoofing site, they will say "chinese guy wants to confuse japanese bank customers, be careful, bla bla bla", believe me is like that. Banks got a lot of money, they can pass information to journalists about "evil" domainers registering their company names and then nobody wants to jeopardize their reputation with "domainers". I want famous domainers forum in Japan, this news on bad hands is very bad reputation for all.

Do you think that holders of .jp or .com Japanese portfolio's may not get the traffic they are expecting - because they are foreign owned?

IYO - Will the average Japanese surfer on the net really care?

I'm curious as a holder of a significant portfolio of Japanese city .com and .net's - will local traffic truly bother to visit if they suspect a site is not owned by a local?

alpha
14th February 2007, 08:48 AM
Do you think that holders of .jp or .com Japanese portfolio's may not get the traffic they are expecting - because they are foreign owned?

IYO - Will the average Japanese surfer on the net really care?

I'm curious as a holder of a significant portfolio of Japanese city .com and .net's - will local traffic truly bother to visit if they suspect a site is not owned by a local?

99.9999% of traffic [assuming it one day arrives] will come from surfers who don't know what whois is anyway, or cares.

put yourself in their shoes.

before i got into domaining, i surfed .co.uk sites and not once thought about who owned the website/domain. Who cares, if you get what you want, can buy what you want - does it matter.

now i know how to check owners of domains, i once looked at all my bookmarked .co.uk's and found [rather unsurprisingly] that the non-commercial ones are owned by americans - they raped the ass out of .uk while the brits were having a nap.

do i care? nope

i didnt care when i didnt know, and still dont care when i do now know - unless all the Japanese surfers know how to query the whois and are also racist - then this is a non-issue.

Olney
14th February 2007, 09:09 AM
Japanese users can't tell. I had one guy who message me because he had a pet clothing brand. I actually by coincidence have the domains for dog clothing. He went with a IDN.com & just asked if he can ask me technical questions in case he has any.

Just like the progression of dot coms in English small companies will register variations they find available (in the beginning), it's the big companies I'm betting for that will take the first bites to acquire things before competitions.

There's not only us who will pitch domains to the big guys, A few of the big media companies started stockpiling IDNs last year & I know it's to offer to their customers at corporate rates (at some point).

To be honest I don't know what typeins will be like. There's a lot of factors that changed. Google changed, ie7 changed, plus even though I or Rhys say jp might be the strong extension for IDNs in Japan, the strong extension might be determined by what users see is developed.

Many premium dot jps might actually just be held so competitors don't get them...
It's something to think about since corporations seem to have the best domains...

This is just truly an opinion.

markits
14th February 2007, 10:13 AM
Many Japanese websites use com and net extensions and often put the domains in Japanese forms on top of the pages. This has made com and net quite popular among Japanese surfers. The best example is kakaku.com that has known by surfers as 価格.com. I have many generic com/net domains that get good ovt results (domain with ext). But they don't get any hits when I change the extensions to .jp.

Explorer
14th February 2007, 01:01 PM
Not True , most .com's are owned by foreigners , but Not JP's

"Hotta said that IDNs are gaining widespread acceptance with Japan’s .jp extension. He noted that since Microsoft announced in December 2004 that the IDN enabled Internet Explorer 7 browser was coming, the number of .jp IDNs registered jumped from 40,000 to over 125,000 today. He added that the IDN.jp segment is growing at 10% annually with a renewal rate above 80% (and as high as 90% among Japanese citizens)."

http://dnjournal.com/articles/events/domainfestglobal2007-page2.htm

All I am saying is .com should be worth more than .jp because of much higher risk.

if it ever came to that i'd just give them all to one of our Japanese resident idners - theres no way i'd just give em to some greedy b***ard reverse hijack SWAT team

or maybe buy a property in Japan :p

It may not be that easy to do given a short notice. Plus, there is a risk of legal action as well.

Rubber Duck
14th February 2007, 01:10 PM
Even at 125,000, the number of Japanese registrations is quite modest.

I think it is likely that IDN.cn is around the half million mark by now and dot Com is likely to be significantly bigger than both of these.

sarcle
14th February 2007, 01:22 PM
Even at 125,000, the number of Japanese registrations is quite modest.

I think it is likely that IDN.cn is around the half million mark by now and dot Com is likely to be significantly bigger than both of these.

To tell you the truth I'd rather be brought to the Japanese courts than go through China's process. I can almost bet that is for sure a no win situation for westerners.


i didnt care when i didnt know, and still dont care when i do now know - unless all the Japanese surfers know how to query the whois and are also racist - then this is a non-issue.

Yeah, and if all the people on Myspace knew that Rupert Murdoch owner of Fox News owned Myspace I'd bet there would be a lot less members. Let's face it the general public have no idea who owns what and never question it.

touchring
14th February 2007, 02:06 PM
To tell you the truth I'd rather be brought to the Japanese courts than go through China's process. I can almost bet that is for sure a no win situation for westerners.

Yeah, and if all the people on Myspace knew that Rupert Murdoch owner of Fox News owned Myspace I'd bet there would be a lot less members. Let's face it the general public have no idea who owns what and never question it.


I think you'll find the China process less traumatic, you just wake up to see that you don't own the name.

sarcle
14th February 2007, 02:31 PM
I think you'll find the China process less traumatic, you just wake up to see that you don't own the name.

That's not traumatic? Some have spent thousands. Flush.

sunsei21
14th February 2007, 03:03 PM
i would have a small heart attack if woke up and had no more domains well might have to leave .jp alone and head elsewhere with .com .net only ;)

rhys
14th February 2007, 04:15 PM
Many Japanese websites use com and net extensions and often put the domains in Japanese forms on top of the pages. This has made com and net quite popular among Japanese surfers. The best example is kakaku.com that has known by surfers as 価格.com. I have many generic com/net domains that get good ovt results (domain with ext). But they don't get any hits when I change the extensions to .jp.

We've had extensive debate on this topic in the past and I'm frankly not up for another one. As Olney says, it is not cast in stone at this point. For a variety of reasons I have stated in previous threads, I believe the .JP will prove to have superior value to Japanese over .com and .net. It doesn't make it so. But my opinion and sticking to it for the moment. Now I am going to go fix a website that ought to be making me a ton more money than it is.

tee1
14th February 2007, 04:48 PM
I think those with dot WS, however, are safe enough.
lmao,

I was getting worried someone would burn $1000 and wipo me to get one my .ws. :p

sarcle
14th February 2007, 04:50 PM
We've had extensive debate on this topic in the past and I'm frankly not up for another one. As Olney says, it is not cast in stone at this point. For a variety of reasons I have stated in previous threads, I believe the .JP will prove to have superior value to Japanese over .com and .net. It doesn't make it so. But my opinion and sticking to it for the moment. Now I am going to go fix a website that ought to be making me a ton more money than it is.

I don't know. Just read this today.

On my way to a business meeting, I was riding the JR East train from Tokyo and saw the first public advertisement of Japanese IDN. What a shocker! I wanted to take a picture, but my battery ran out of my phone. If i see it again, ill post the pic.

"急募.com/"
"kyubo.com"
Are owned by one of the biggest publishing company in Japan.
I guess i should get on the wagon with the other owners of IDN.


http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?p=1085877#post1085877

markits
14th February 2007, 06:36 PM
We've had extensive debate on this topic in the past and I'm frankly not up for another one. As Olney says, it is not cast in stone at this point. For a variety of reasons I have stated in previous threads, I believe the .JP will prove to have superior value to Japanese over .com and .net. It doesn't make it so. But my opinion and sticking to it for the moment. Now I am going to go fix a website that ought to be making me a ton more money than it is.

My opinion (maybe should be Feeling) is that jp and com are equally valuable. I understand that many Japanese would value the jp more than com, just as many Chinese people like the .cn better. However, the com is deeply planted in people's heart as a dot extension in both countries. In China, we have seen heavy promotions of cn by the government, but most domain spaculators don't listen and continue to invest higher $$ in coms.

To sarcle:
This is truly a shocking in that the advertiser did not realise that 急募.com is actual a visitable URL (domain). They put 急募.com as a brand in their ad without realising that they are advertising other people's business.
I can see that in this case that 急募.com is actually owned by a local Japanese, not a Westerner.

sarcle
14th February 2007, 06:41 PM
To sarcle:
This is truly a shocking in that the advertiser did not realise that 急募.com is actual a visitable URL (domain). They put 急募.com as a brand in their ad without realising that they are advertising other people's business.
I can see that in this case that 急募.com is actually owned by a local Japanese, not an Westerner.

Yes, but just the same it's promting idn to the public and it's a .com. And that's a good thing.

markits
14th February 2007, 06:45 PM
Yes, but just the same it's promting idn to the public and it's a .com. And that's a good thing.

That is a postive point for sure.

sarcle
14th February 2007, 07:22 PM
That is a postive point for sure.

Glass is always half-full right? :)

Olney
15th February 2007, 12:24 AM
The kyubo (急募.com) that the person seen is old. it's not an IDN you guys haven't looked. (It usually a Red Truck riding around Shibuya, & Omotesando)

1. What is advertised is (急募.com) the company advertising it, has the URL kyubo.com
2. A competitor bought 急募.com & it redirecting it to another site.

They are advertising this they way they have been for years. It's not new. They don't own the IDN. I saw this in September 2005 as soon as I came back to Tokyo. I might have written about it.

dot com is seen a lot but we have to think about how people will use IDNs. It's new registrations & developments that's going to make IDNs. At first people were hesitant with .jp the same way. Companies kept their co.jp & use .jp for customer use. IDNs will start with blogs, personal pages (Sites not owned by the large corporations), & campaign sites(for companies). This is only how people will "mainly" get familiar with them first over here.

http://www.infoseek.co.jp/images/isj00/scripts/car/M20060623kobayashi_maki.jpg

Rubber Duck
15th February 2007, 12:42 AM
I think you are wrong on this. You need to move from a market where basically nothing is happening to one where a huge amount is happening.

If you go to Chinese you will find that large numbers of large companies are cloning their sites. They end up with two sites. One ASCII one IDN. These sites start of as being the same site and then develop in parallel. In its simplest form all they do is make a complete copy of the site and replace all the ASCII domain references in the links, with the IDN domain.

Once you have both up the swap over is very easy. When IDN browser support hits critical levels, you just change the Logo on the ASCII site to show the IDN version and make sure all your external advertising reflects the IDN version. Within months your ASCII traffic will dwindle to a trickle and then you just close it by forwarding it to the IDN.

The only good example I could find of this in Japanese is Verisign. They have their own IDN site, which is incidentally not identical to the ASCII site as it is clearly already following its own development trajectory. Google has also done this with Korean. I have also seen examples of this in Russian and Arabic. The Japanese actually seem to be a long long way behind.

blastfromthepast
15th February 2007, 01:20 AM
Could the owner of 急募.com sue them to stop them from using it?

markits
15th February 2007, 01:52 AM
Could the owner of 急募.com sue them to stop them from using it?
LOL, but
WTG!!

Olney
15th February 2007, 02:05 AM
From my point of view the corporate side of Japan, the large companies are not making the decisions themselves. Many companies are paying (outsourcing) PPC strategies, SEM, SEO etc. No one is going to advise their client to clone their site. They will suggest new develop so the clients see how these domains produce results.

Duplicate content is duplicate content. It's a no no... it's just a fact. I'm not saying people won't ever change URLs, I'm just saying people don't get familiar with IDNs if they are redirects. New development will be what people will see "first"...

When I think Corporate Jp it's more of the older crowd (with the bucks), the younger crowd will adapt quicker & the older guys will massively copy, at a fast rate, & better. This is the Japan I think myself, Rhys, & Edwin are looking at.

rhys
15th February 2007, 03:43 AM
http://www.infoseek.co.jp/images/isj00/scripts/car/M20060623kobayashi_maki.jpg

Hi, tell me more about your website!!!!

Rubber Duck
15th February 2007, 10:59 AM
From my point of view the corporate side of Japan, the large companies are not making the decisions themselves. Many companies are paying (outsourcing) PPC strategies, SEM, SEO etc. No one is going to advise their client to clone their site. They will suggest new develop so the clients see how these domains produce results.

Duplicate content is duplicate content. It's a no no... it's just a fact. I'm not saying people won't ever change URLs, I'm just saying people don't get familiar with IDNs if they are redirects. New development will be what people will see "first"...

When I think Corporate Jp it's more of the older crowd (with the bucks), the younger crowd will adapt quicker & the older guys will massively copy, at a fast rate, & better. This is the Japan I think myself, Rhys, & Edwin are looking at.

I can see your concern, but I can assure you this is happening in China. Perhaps they are less SEO aware or perhaps the fact that Baidu dominates might have something to do with it. Not all search engines will treat everything the same and Google at least will be aware of the problem as they are going down this route themselves. Frankly their alogorithms are so powerful that they can do just about anything they like if they want to. Google coud easily turn off the duplicate content penalisation for IDN sites if they wanted to for a limited period.

Of course the converse argument is to clone and then immediately do permanent forwarding to the IDN site. That would get around the duplicate content problem. OK you would loose ranking on the old site but probably not much before you gained it on the new one. The benefits might well exceed the cost. Each company is going to have to make its own call. The only thing that is certain is that those that fail to do this are going to loose out big time as IDN walks all over ASCII in the search rankings.

I think that we are all in danger of looking at things too rigidly. Just because a certain set of rules applies to a given existing situation, it doesn't mean that those are set in stone. Special situations call for special measures. History is full of examples where this has happened.