IDNs in the TRAFFIC Auction...

[domainstosell]

Out of the only 9 IDNs selected for the TRAFFIC auction, all but 3 are owned by the same company, Wyvern, LLC:

纽约州.com (xn--6rtq34e7b.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New York State" in Chinese

ניו-יורק.com (xn----9hcbnc2b2ch.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New-York" in Hebrew

テキサス州.com (xn--nckqm3c7069a.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Texas State" in Japanese

ヨハネスブルグ.com (xn--qckr3dh1b6gza.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Johannesburg" in Japanese

シリコンバレー.com (xn--tckh0fwem4b0d.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Silicon Valley" in Japanese

뉴욕주.com (xn--vg1bt59azwb.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New York State" in Korean

Wyvern is (or was) headed by Josh Metnick of Chicago.com and Associated Cities fame, who I am am sure runs in certain "domain-associated" circles...

This smells fishy to me...

I realize that a general consensus is that we don't need the auction, the domains won't get a fair shake, it's the wrong audience, etc. However, there is just something not right about this. They say they "didn't receive many IDNs..." but why these out of what they did receive? Why no Latin-based IDNs? Some of this is due to a learning curve, maybe, but I was pretty surprised by what I saw when I checked the whois...


Others on the list - These are owned by private individuals or companies, so I will not list the whois details...

エレクトロニクス.com
название.com
情報技術.com

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, and I have just registered the dot Nets on three of these.

Fuck knows what they mean, I didn't check but shit they have got to be valuable.


Out of the only 9 IDNs selected for the TRAFFIC auction, all but 3 are owned by the same company, Wyvern, LLC:

纽约州.com (xn--6rtq34e7b.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New York State" in Chinese

ניו-יורק.com (xn----9hcbnc2b2ch.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New-York" in Hebrew

テキサス州.com (xn--nckqm3c7069a.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Texas State" in Japanese

ヨハネスブルグ.com (xn--qckr3dh1b6gza.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Johannesburg" in Japanese

シリコンバレー.com (xn--tckh0fwem4b0d.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"Silicon Valley" in Japanese

뉴욕주.com (xn--vg1bt59azwb.com) - Owned by Wyvern
"New York State" in Korean

Wyvern is (or was) headed by Josh Metnick of Chicago.com and Associated Cities fame, who I am am sure runs in certain "domain-associated" circles...

This smells fishy to me...

I realize that a general consensus is that we don't need the auction, the domains won't get a fair shake, it's the wrong audience, etc. However, there is just something not right about this. They say they "didn't receive many IDNs..." but why these out of wat they did receive? Why no Latin-based IDNs? Some of this is due to a learning curve, maybe, but I was pretty surprised by what I saw when I checked the whois...


Others on the list - These are owned by private individuals or companies, so I will not list the whois details...

エレクトロニクス.com
название.com
情報技術.com

[domainstosell]

Yes, and I have just registered the dot Nets on three of these.

Fuck knows what they mean, I didn't check but shit they have got to be valuable.

That's funny!!

[thegenius1]

Really wierd stuff going on mate :confused:

[IDNCowboy]

Rubber duck

we don't call Texas, "Texas State"

;-(

I live in NY and we don't call it "New York State"

[Giant]

I live in NY and we don't call it "New York State"

Maybe only foreigners call NY New York State.

[zenmarketing]

I *think* he's being sarcastic ;-)

Obviously if the names were valuable, the .net's would not have been available.

[bramiozo]

..what do we call this.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism)

[sarcle]

This can't be it. They have to be adding more. There is no way this is complete. If it is......

[domainstosell]

..what do we call this.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism)

Nice, but I think it isn't so much nepotism as an easy way for Moniker to shut the IDN community up... They didn't stack the deck to help a friend for personal gain, they said:

"Who do we know and trust, who can put up some IDNs that we can shove into this auction? We promised IDNs, but now that we've got them, we really don't know how to manage them. They called us on it when we tried to just not include any, so now we have to have SOMETHING... Let's just put a few in as an afterthought - I'll talk to Josh Metnick, I know he has some IDNs, and he'd probably let us list a couple..."

Something along those lines.

I don't mean any disrespect to the owners of the other three names that got in, but I did notice that they weren't just your average, Joe-Blow IDNer either...

That's not to imply that they were part of any kind of conspiracy by any stretch of the imagination, my point is simply that Moniker only seemed willing to go with completely known entities rather than look at the full spectrum of what was presented to them.

That's my take on it, at this point, anyway.

[Rubber Duck]

My biggest worry is that Tim and Monte take it on themselves to start educating the folks at TRAFFIC on IDN. If that happens, then we have a real problem on our hands!

[Giant]

My biggest worry is that Tim and Monte take it on themselves to start educating the folks at TRAFFIC on IDN. If that happens, then we have a real problem on our hands!

They couldn't invite you to educate the folks at TRAFFIC on IDN so they probably had to do it themselves :-)

Don't underestimate Rick S. :-) He's striking back!

[Rubber Duck]

I accused him of being Parochial.

He was under no obligation to prove me correct.

[bramiozo]

Nice, but I think it isn't so much nepotism as an easy way for Moniker to shut the IDN community up... They didn't stack the deck to help a friend for personal gain, they said:

"Who do we know and trust, who can put up some IDNs that we can shove into this auction? We promised IDNs, but now that we've got them, we really don't know how to manage them. They called us on it when we tried to just not include any, so now we have to have SOMETHING... Let's just put a few in as an afterthought - I'll talk to Josh Metnick, I know he has some IDNs, and he'd probably let us list a couple..."

Something along those lines.

I don't mean any disrespect to the owners of the other three names that got in, but I did notice that they weren't just your average, Joe-Blow IDNer either...

That's not to imply that they were part of any kind of conspiracy by any stretch of the imagination, my point is simply that Moniker only seemed willing to go with completely known entities rather than look at the full spectrum of what was presented to them.

That's my take on it, at this point, anyway.


Makes sense (however unprofessional) but it doesn't make sense to allocate 66% to only one person especially if that person is a relative IDN newbie compared to dave,mulligan, sarcle and others who have entered names which should certainly be of higher quality than these relatively obscure geographics.

Favoritism based on personal relations rather than abilities, this sure looks like it, whatever the stature of mr. Metnick is, because he is without doubt an example to the domaining community.

[thegenius1]

Mulligan whats going on here, any Idea ?

[Rubber Duck]

They have done what they have done to attempt to address their target audience.

For this reason they have made the same mistake that most ASCII domainers are making.

The purpose of investing in IDN is not only to get in at the bottom, but it is to target the new online consumers in the World's fastest growing markets.

These terms are not only not used in the US, they are not much used in that languages that are written in. If they had mastered Google search they would know this much.

The guy who has registered these has jumped on the bandwagon, but frankly has not got the mindset of a true IDNer. These are crap and presumably he is putting forward at least what he considers to be some of his better names.

As ever, however, they only see it from their own ego-centric perspective. Pathetic!

[domainstosell]

Makes sense (however unprofessional) but it doesn't make sense to allocate 66% to only one person especially if that person is a relative IDN newbie compared to dave,mulligan, sarcle and others who have entered names which should certainly be of higher quality than these relatively obscure geographics.

Favoritism based on personal relations rather than abilities, this sure looks like it, whatever the stature of mr. Metnick is, because he is without doubt an example to the domaining community.

Very true...

Also, I've come across Wyvern before when regging, and I know they have much better domains that these.

[alexd]

Are these then going to be the ONLY IDNs at the auction, or will there be others.

You'd think that out of what some others had submitted, they would have been choosen over these ones.

[Rubber Duck]

Well I offered 4. The one they have included is the one I would have put money on being left out!

[mulligan]

Mulligan whats going on here, any Idea ?


Very high reserves was mentioned as being a reason for a lot of names not being listed and there seems not to have been a significant number of domains actually submitted.

While we may be able to see the percieved $$$ value of IDNs others may not and that might be a reason for more names not being listed. We are in the minority and it will take a while before it is accepted that we're not going away and that IDNs are not a passing fad.

[Rubber Duck]

......we're not going away and that IDNs are not a passing fad.

It is not a passing fad, but if Moniker are counting on us not going away, then they may have misread the situation!

By trying to put the acceptable face of IDN to TRAFFIC in this way they are just risking the ridicule of both communities.

[blastfromthepast]

How many people from outside of the US attend the event?

[domainstosell]

Very high reserves was mentioned as being a reason for a lot of names not being listed and there seems not to have been a significant number of domains actually submitted.

While we may be able to see the percieved $$$ value of IDNs others may not and that might be a reason for more names not being listed. We are in the minority and it will take a while before it is accepted that we're not going away and that IDNs are not a passing fad.

I think many unfairly expect Mulligan to have all the answers simply because of his releationship with Moniker...

While I can believe that high reserves may have played a part, they are really hanging their hats on that point. I submitted a fair share of IDNs, and the reserves were in-line or lower than past comparable sales - I used past sales to help set them...

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me whether my names get in, or if they have IDNs in the auction at all. My beef comes from the fact that they pumped the forum for names, then tried to sneak out the back door when they realized they were in over their heads. After being caught, they just threw some stuff in the auction, hoping that it would appease the folks who caught them in the first place.

I mean, look at some of the reserves on some of the ASCII domains that are in there...

And a .gd makes the live auction??

[blastfromthepast]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me whether my names get in, or if they have IDNs in the auction at all. My beef comes from the fact that they pumped the forum for names, then tried to sneak out the back door when they realized they were in over their heads. After being caught, they just threw some stuff in the auction, hoping that it would appease the folks who caught them in the first place.

Right on.

[domainstosell]

Right on.

Exactly, which makes it all the worse when they try to have a grass-roots, "of the people" face to their company.

[Rubber Duck]

We have made the fatal error of swallowing the sales hype.

Before I place any more IDN there, I shall want to see a track record of sales at DNJ.

In the past when I have wanted peoples business, I have been expected to demonstrate compitance.

Under the circumstances, I think it would not be unreasonable to expect the same.

[blastfromthepast]

Exactly, which makes it all the worse when they try to have a grass-roots, "of the people" face to their company.

I don't know about you, but I never saw Moniker as a grass-roots company.

It is a company tied up with the TRAFFIC crowd and Rick Schwartz type of domainers more than anything.

For that group of people, IDNs are a threat to their investment.

You should expect collusion to protect that investment.

[Rubber Duck]

The only reason they perceive IDN as a threat is because they have a total misperception about the value of their investments, or in some cases they are setting out to totally misconstrue the value of their investments to others.


I don't know about you, but I never saw Moniker as a grass-roots company.

It is a company tied up with the TRAFFIC crowd and Rick Schwartz type of domainers more than anything.

For that group of people, IDNs are a threat to their investment.

You should expect collusion to protect that investment.

[mulligan]

I suspect there will be a better showing at the NY June show

[Rubber Duck]

I suspect there will be a better showing at the NY June show

I would not count on it.

Monte might want them. Whether he will get them or not, much depends on what happens in the meantime.

[domainstosell]

I don't know about you, but I never saw Moniker as a grass-roots company.

It is a company tied up with the TRAFFIC crowd and Rick Schwartz type of domainers more than anything.

For that group of people, IDNs are a threat to their investment.

You should expect collusion to protect that investment.

Yeah, I just meant grass-roots as in, "hey, here we are at your forums, at your service, hanging where you hang," etc...

But you're right, the path gets darker with each move they make...

[sarcle]

Yeah, I just meant grass-roots as in, "hey, here we are at your forums, at your service, hanging where you hang," etc...

But you're right, the path gets darker with each move they make...

I'm actually embarrassed for them. If the intent was to impede or slow down IDNs or embarrass the community; they F-ed up big time. They have lost all my respect and credibility as a superb company that does thorough fact checking.

Simple fact of the matter is I submitted top keywords in many languages some much cheaper than the reserves that are in place on those domains on that list.

If they think they are going to get future business from me at the next auction which I believe is Internext. [I could be wrong if that's the next one or not.] They are sadly mistaken. And Internext actually might really be interested in the emerging International adult market. It's usually the porn guys that are first to capitalize on emerging markets. Considering the traffic I get on my adult names that are hosted.

Moniker f-ed themselves big time.

[Rubber Duck]

It probably would have been better if they had left it to the little gnome with the pointy ears.


I'm actually embarrassed for them. If the intent was to impede or slow down IDNs or embarrass the community; they F-ed up big time. They have lost all my respect and credibility as a superb company that does thorough fact checking.

Simple fact of the matter is I submitted top keywords in many languages some much cheaper than the reserves that are in place on those domains on that list.

If they think they are going to get future business from me at the next auction which I believe is Internext. [I could be wrong if that's the next one or not.] They are sadly mistaken. And Internext actually might really be interested in the emerging International adult market. It's usually the porn guys that are first to capitalize on emerging markets. Considering the traffic I get on my adult names that are hosted.

Moniker f-ed themselves big time.

[Neptune]

nice ... maybe this will increase the value of my ヨハネスブルグ.jp (Johannesburg) :)

I am not too worried about what is taking place. Its a matter of time, as the local markets continue to embrace IDNs, others will follow including the bigger money. Although they arent top names, i dont think its such a bad thing that names are coming from someone that is trusted in the ascii crowd, it may offer more comfort to potential buyers, and do nothing other than increase the value of the better names.

All the mudslinging conspiracy theory stuff may or may not be true, but its not going to benefit any of us, but rather further alienate this community in my opinion. Some of these people will be investors down the road, i just think time is better spent promoting IDNs in other ways rather than calling the ascii crowd idiots everytime they turn their cheek, becuase it will continue to happen. A lot of these guys dont have to care.. or we are little more than a nuisance. This will ineveitably change, but i dont buy into the whole conspiracy theory "us" against "them". If they really felt threatened they have the money to do something about it. As IDNs start earning significant revenue, we wont have to be beating down doors, or claiming the world is against us.

[Wot]

All of us on this board know that IDN's will succeed and become an accepted part of the "way to access the internet".

This is the first attempt by an auction entity to consider offering IDN's , not to appease the IDN community, why should they- still only a relatively few believers, but in my opinion a genuine attempt to get in on the ground floor.

They simply got it very wrong!

IDNS are here to stay and they will be a must include for any upcoming domain auctions/conferences, whether it be this year who knows - but it won't be long. :)

We will also need good ambassadors- guerrila fighters can become presidents. :eek:

[Olney]

I see it as Neptune
It's not us against them, plenty of companies in the US are usually just stumped when it comes to foreign languages. There is also the human factor... You can't just call everyone an idiot & expect them to actually rush to make you thousands of dollars.

It's just the first time... I can't see a conspiracy trying to hold us down.

This is just my personal opinion

[Rubber Duck]

I wouldn't even worry about it. It is the first day of Spring. My paypal account has been ringing like a cash register all day long.

This game is not about selling really, it is about surviving until the traffic starts to flow. I am optimistic that will start to happen well before the next TRAFFICs. By this time next year, if things are not right, we'll just organise something else.

If Moniker want to be part of the IDN scene, then they need to sharpen up their act and fast. They cannot afford another Fiasco like this one. Personally, now I think I will hold back until the one after they get it right, but by that time I am not sure I am going to be looking at selling anyway. I certainly won't be brow beaten into low reserves.

[markits]

What a mess!

[touchring]

I wouldn't even worry about it. It is the first day of Spring. My paypal account has been ringing like a cash register all day long.

This game is not about selling really, it is about surviving until the traffic starts to flow. I am optimistic that will start to happen well before the next TRAFFICs. By this time next year, if things are not right, we'll just organise something else.

If Moniker want to be part of the IDN scene, then they need to sharpen up their act and fast. They cannot afford another Fiasco like this one. Personally, now I think I will hold back until the one after they get it right, but by that time I am not sure I am going to be looking at selling anyway. I certainly won't be brow beaten into low reserves.


Well done! :)

On hindsight, RD's the smarter among us all. What Rick said was correct.

My advice to everyone not selling your names at this moment - make sure you have set aside funds or earn enough funds from ppc/adsense/affiliates, to renew your names for another 3 years at least.

Even if traffic kicks off next month, it doesn't matter as it is always good to set aside more funds.

[Rubber Duck]

Well done! :)

On hindsight, RD's the smarter among us all. What Rick said was correct.

My advice to everyone not selling your names at this moment - make sure you have set aside funds or earn enough funds from ppc/adsense/affiliates, to renew your names for another 3 years at least.

Even if traffic kicks off next month, it doesn't matter as it is always good to set aside more funds.

The perspective holds true until you factor in that obvious fact that Rick knows absolutely nothing about IDN.

If IDN are not fetching good money in 12 months time, it is doubtful they ever will.

It is a perfectly acceptable strategy to arbitrage the market in the meantime.

If in 12 months time IDN are fetching next to nothing, why bother to renew anyway?

Don't worry they won't be. The only thing that Rick can predict with any accuracy is how much they will be fetching at TRAFFICs, which by then will be largely irrelevant.

Truth is ASCII is running out of places to hide. Even Frank Schilling seems to be becoming a fan of Typo's. Don't worry he will soon get bored with that.

[thegenius1]

If IDN are not fetching good money in 12 months time, it is doubtful they ever will.


Dude another ludicrous comment , this game is not all about SELLING , and its definitely not all about Selling to Americans ! IF the natives dont show up in a year i dont know what makes you think they wont ever show up , it just doesnt make sense dave. Very short sided vision , every market of idn's will mature at their own pace. You cant just Group all IDN's in the same boat.

[seamo]

IDNS are here to stay and they will be a must include for any upcoming domain auctions/conferences, whether it be this year who knows - but it won't be long. :)

We will also need good ambassadors- guerrila fighters can become presidents. :eek:
Amen Brother

RD for first ever IDN Prez...that's my vote.

[domainguru]

Dude another ludicrous comment , this game is not all about SELLING , and its definitely not all about Selling to Americans ! IF the natives dont show up in a year i dont know what makes you think they wont ever show up , it just doesnt make sense dave. Very short sided vision , every market of idn's will mature at their own pace. You cant just Group all IDN's in the same boat.

It is certainly region dependent. IE7 usage is only growing at 1.5% per month in Thailand, and because of technical issues, Firefox is hardly used here, so whether you take "critical mass" as 40%,50%,60% or 80%, we are a long way from achieving it. And I don't believe IDNs will achieve *anything* like their true value until some time after "critical mass".

Not to mention Thais seem much more keen on the idea of IDN.IDN than IDN.com

So we're still thinking "long haul" unfortunately 8)

Amen Brother

RD for first ever IDN Prez...that's my vote.

Certainly be an "interesting" choice :p

[touchring]

The perspective holds true until you factor in that obvious fact that Rick knows absolutely nothing about IDN.

If IDN are not fetching good money in 12 months time, it is doubtful they ever will.


I know, it's just a bet. Rick's not going to learn about IDN until a long time later - as i don't think he cares. In the meantime, it's still possible to earn a tidy sum while the search engines give priority to idns. So, there is still an alternative to outright sale.

[Rubber Duck]

I know, it's just a bet. Rick's not going to learn about IDN until a long time later - as i don't think he cares. In the meantime, it's still possible to earn a tidy sum while the search engines give priority to idns. So, there is still an alternative to outright sale.

Yes, but that realisation will soon start to convert to sales anyway.

We won't get DNAME this month, but it is likely that we will get some clarity on where things are going. Dot Mobi has soared a lot higher on a lot less.

Critical Mass will be achieved before year end one way or another. They are not even waiting in China. Content is being rolled out.

I think it may be possible that content is also being prepared in Japan but posted on https protocol whilst testing, to avoid issues with double content. This does not seem to be the case in China, but perhaps they are not so worried about what Google or even Yahoo thinks.


It is certainly region dependent. IE7 usage is only growing at 1.5% per month in Thailand, and because of technical issues, Firefox is hardly used here, so whether you take "critical mass" as 40%,50%,60% or 80%, we are a long way from achieving it. And I don't believe IDNs will achieve *anything* like their true value until some time after "critical mass".

Not to mention Thais seem much more keen on the idea of IDN.IDN than IDN.com

So we're still thinking "long haul" unfortunately 8)



Certainly be an "interesting" choice :p

[domainguru]

I know, it's just a bet. Rick's not going to learn about IDN until a long time later - as i don't think he cares. In the meantime, it's still possible to earn a tidy sum while the search engines give priority to idns. So, there is still an alternative to outright sale.

i don't think the search engines are currently giving "priority" to IDN domains. All search engines give weight to some extent to domains that have the keyword in them. From what I know about ASCII domains, the engines that prioritize most are:
1) MSN
2) Yahoo!
3) Google

Currently, for thai domains at least, only Google is helping out. If MSN and Yahoo! start to pony up properly, there is still room for upside, especially in markets where google isn't dominant.

[Rubber Duck]

Not at all. Locals are here already, some of them as buyers, although the balance is still in favour of flippers.

For Chinese the demand for IDN is outstripping anything you are seeing anywhere else. If you count Dot CN and Dot Com together it could already be around Half a Million per month. We need to keep track of the stats over the next few weeks but it is starting to get interesting. It won't be long before there are more IDN.CN that Dot US but separating out the stats might difficult. My experience is that most of the buyers at the moment are ethnic Chinese. If you think it is going to be long before the moment important venues for IDN are in Mainland China, then you are living on a separate planet.

It is clear that inner circle at TRAFFIC are not going to buying IDN from us any time soon, although some of the may already be weighing up the drop services.

Dude another ludicrous comment , this game is not all about SELLING , and its definitely not all about Selling to Americans ! IF the natives dont show up in a year i dont know what makes you think they wont ever show up , it just doesnt make sense dave. Very short sided vision , every market of idn's will mature at their own pace. You cant just Group all IDN's in the same boat.



There is no Priority as such or need for it. All we need is for Unicode searches to match URLs in exactly the same way that ASCII searches do. As nearly 100% of the searching in our target market is in Local Characters, we don't need an advantage. We already have it!

All IDN have ever need is a level playing field. We will soon have in terms of Browser Support. I have no doubt that Google, MSN and Yahoo, Baidu and even eventually Yandex will give us it for Search.

Moniker and TRAFFICs seem to be hell bent on deny us this, but all this is really doing is establishing their relevance or lack of it. At the moment it is not looking good for them. Yes, perhaps we could have done with a little boost, but if anyone thinks that bunch of clowns is going to have any serious impact on the ultimate outcome, then they have totally lost the plot.

i don't think the search engines are currently giving "priority" to IDN domains. All search engines give weight to some extent to domains that have the keyword in them. From what I know about ASCII domains, the engines that prioritize most are:
1) MSN
2) Yahoo!
3) Google

Currently, for thai domains at least, only Google is helping out. If MSN and Yahoo! start to pony up properly, there is still room for upside, especially in markets where google isn't dominant.

[sarcle]

i don't think the search engines are currently giving "priority" to IDN domains. All search engines give weight to some extent to domains that have the keyword in them. From what I know about ASCII domains, the engines that prioritize most are:
1) MSN
2) Yahoo!
3) Google

Currently, for thai domains at least, only Google is helping out. If MSN and Yahoo! start to pony up properly, there is still room for upside, especially in markets where google isn't dominant.

Ive seen the same thing with my Thai sites. Google loves Thai, but takes forever with Japanese. In Japanese it's reveresed. Yahoo scoops them up right away and Google lags. Even MSN is faster than Google.